Steam Packet considers shake-up of fleet

[Andy Onchan]

Why not put the BMC on the Irish routes all year round for a couple of years and see what business is generated whilst the MXM settles in? DUB & BFS on alternate days for example.

[John Wright]

25 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Why not put the BMC on the Irish routes all year round for a couple of years and see what business is generated whilst the MXM settles in? DUB & BFS on alternate days for example.

I don’t think there’s that level of demand. But daily to Liverpool all year around, twice daily in Summer,  with one a week to either Dublin or Belfast in lowest season, one to each in shoulder season and twice a week to each in peak season.

Were you meaning Douglas to BFS and DUB? Or Liverpool to BFS and DUB. I think Stena has the LPL DUB traffic covered?

[John Wright]

7 hours ago, Happier diner said:

What wouldn't be economic. It would be no different to now. You can take any vehicle up to 7.5t on the mannanan 

Except. It’s 4t to Belfast. And the turns off the ramp, onto the floating landing stage, and up to Princes Parade are challenging in a long vehicle. I used to do it regularly in a 4.5t N&B flair 7000

[Happier diner]

5 hours ago, John Wright said:

Think it through. It’s much more expensive to ship six transits with six drivers than one trailer with container with no driver. That increases cost to consumer. Steam Packet would have a potential fare bonanza.

Liverpool is a longer crossing than Heysham, so fuel costs are 20% higher.

It’s just not a sensible use of Mx.

Having the Arrow do two daily returns with containers to Heysham takes us back to the expense of two boats, two crew rosters. SPCo went RoRo to avoid those types of overheads.

SPCo need to set out their strategy. I agree that, once, if, Mx proves it can cope with harbour entry and manoeuvres during winter, then Ben must go. Keeping it on standby is not realistic financially.

Then we are into planning for Mannanan replacement. I don’t favour a fast craft. But two, smaller, conventional ferries like the recent CalMac purchases from Turkey. Sailings to Liverpool all year round. Ability to offer Scots sailings, Irish and Northern Ireland sailings at increased frequency.

Perhaps a once a day service between Liverpool or Heysham to Dublin. With P&O withdrawing their Dublin service there’s a potential gap in the market, and no passenger service between England and Republic of Ireland.

P&O say they’ve been booted out of Gladstone Dock by Peel. P&O have history of not paying fees. Peel seized one of the ferries at one stage. No love lost there. Plus the boats are old. Not economic to replace.

The route is a Brexit victim. Freight that used to come from the EU via Newcastle and Hull headed to Liverpool, mainly. Now there are direct sailings from Netherlands and France and Spain to Rosslare or Dublin.

They benefit from standard tried design, dual fuel, lower fuel consumption, less pollution. 450 pax. 100 cars or a car and van mix. Or up to 20 containers. Fast craft are heavy fuel consumption/high level polluters. Plus have operational weather constraints.

I don't need to think it through, it's bleeding obvious and I never claimed otherwise😄

That's why I queried what @Max Power meant by small freight.

If he meant small commercial vehicles then yes. I was thinking about visiting tradesmen in vans and trucks up to 7.5t. It can be economically viable to use Liverpool if you have to drive anyway and you are bring gear with you. Same applies to small high value or urgent items which are often couriered via Liverpool (we do it often). I am sure this will continue with the new boat and landing.

Freight to be means bulk loads, which as you rightly say will always be cheapest in large artic trailers without drivers. Marshalled on a dock like Heysham 

What I am not sure about is what are the planning limitations. So if the manxman can take a 30t 18 wheeler and so can the port, is it not allowed at Liverpool. 

 

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Except. It’s 4t to Belfast. And the turns off the ramp, onto the floating landing stage, and up to Princes Parade are challenging in a long vehicle. I used to do it regularly in a 4.5t N&B flair 7000

That's pretty skillful and brave especially with a posh motorhome like that.

Not sure how Belfast came into the discussion.

Seen plenty of mhs ground at Liverpool at low tide. 😬😬😬

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

I don’t think there’s that level of demand. But daily to Liverpool all year around, twice daily in Summer,  with one a week to either Dublin or Belfast in lowest season, one to each in shoulder season and twice a week to each in peak season.

Were you meaning Douglas to BFS and DUB? Or Liverpool to BFS and DUB. I think Stena has the LPL DUB traffic covered?

Yeah. Not much commercial freight IOM to Belfast as well as not many leisure travelers in winter. Like us, NI takes a lot from the UK.

[John Wright]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

That's pretty skillful and brave especially with a posh motorhome like that.

Was surprisingly easy to drive. And yes the tail overhang could be a pain. Had to approach ramps diagonally.

 

3 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

Not sure how Belfast came into the discussion.

You said Mn had 7.5t capacity. But the linkspan in Belfast is only rated at 4t.

 

8 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

What I am not sure about is what are the planning limitations. So if the manxman can take a 30t 18 wheeler and so can the port, is it not allowed at Liverpool. 

 

Artics, trailers, marshalling are restricted by planning  to emergency use when other ports not available and to limited operational time windows

[Happier diner]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

Was surprisingly easy to drive. And yes the tail overhang could be a pain. Had to approach ramps diagonally.

 

You said Mn had 7.5t capacity. But the linkspan in Belfast is only rated at 4t.

 

Artics, trailers, marshalling are restricted by planning  to emergency use when other ports not available and to limited operational time windows

I won't be taking my morello to Belfast 

[John Wright]

7 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

my morello

Why would you take a cherry to Belfast?

If you mean Morelo, nice bit of kit.

[Max Power]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

What I am not sure about is what are the planning limitations. So if the manxman can take a 30t 18 wheeler and so can the port, is it not allowed at Liverpool.

I think the limitation is noise at night time from all of the large movements. There's a lot of residential development in the area. Perhaps it's not a problem during the day time?

[ellanvannin2010]

11 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I think the limitation is noise at night time from all of the large movements. There's a lot of residential development in the area. Perhaps it's not a problem during the day time?

The restriction on freight should have stopped any development of the terminal and saved the IOM £70m and counting 

[Non-Believer]

3 hours ago, Max Power said:

I think the limitation is noise at night time from all of the large movements. There's a lot of residential development in the area. Perhaps it's not a problem during the day time?

This has been known about for years, imposed by LCC (maybe even at Peel's behest?) due to the area's increasing residential development, there's any amount of discussion about it on the Terminal thread. Emergency freight only.

I took the attached pic on Wednesday evening through the Mannanan's salt streaked window after the rough crossing. It still doesn't look like £100M worth....

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Non-Believer

[Blade Runner]

10 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

This has been known about for years, imposed by LCC (maybe even at Peel's behest?) due to the area's increasing residential development, there's any amount of discussion about it on the Terminal thread. Emergency freight only.

I took the attached pic on Wednesday evening through the Mannanan's salt streaked window after the rough crossing. It still doesn't look like £100M worth....

 

I know it was 20 years ago but Nobles cost about the same.............

Even if you said Nobles would be 200mill now it sort of puts it into perspective.

[CrazyDave]

53 minutes ago, Blade Runner said:

I know it was 20 years ago but Nobles cost about the same.............

Even if you said Nobles would be 200mill now it sort of puts it into perspective.

One is built on a field with easy access and the other is built on an old dock in a city centre.

There is no comparison 

[Gladys]

26 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

One is built on a field with easy access and the other is built on an old dock in a city centre.

There is no comparison 

And the majority of the work is groundwork, is it not?