Steam Packet considers shake-up of fleet

[A fool and his money.....]

On 9/21/2023 at 9:18 PM, Omobono said:

plenty of buyers in the Middle East and Gulf ,  access to  lots of cheap fuel and not much thought or regulation  about environmental issues  

Although to quote a prominent politician from that area, "the stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones."

[The Voice of Reason]

On 9/21/2023 at 8:02 PM, Non-Believer said:

The fastcraft was a stipulation of the User Agreement wasn't it? Drawn up and imposed when the world was a different place, both financially and less environmentally-minded.

I doubt that the Steamie, under any ownership, would under its own volition, want to be saddled with the eye-watering fuel and maintenance costs of the fastcraft without being obliged to be.

As I read the article, the Mannanan is both aging and unable to meet likely future environmental regulations; the Steamie are reluctant to buy S/H for the same reasons and also reluctant to replace with new because of the pace that both technology and regulation are moving. A difficult position to be in.

I love the Mannanan. It’s been, and still is a great servant for the Island. Taking people where they want to be and in the shortest time.

Whats there not to like?

[quilp]

Three engines? 

[The Voice of Reason]

4 hours ago, quilp said:

Three engines? 

No, one engine 

[Manxman2000]

The SPC could extend the life of the Manannan for a few years, but that would come at a cost.  Once the marine emissions regs around the eu are made more stringent the resale value of the fast craft is gone. Also the Isle of Man may ignore the emissions from the Manannan but if Liverpool Council enforce new regs the new terminal has no reason for its existence.  A better way forward would be to put the BMC on to Liverpool and sell the fast craft now. The Ben can be fitted with exhaust scrubbers, she may have them now.  That would clean up the exhaust.  Incat seem to be building the cats with gas turbines now. You can bet a new cat like the Manannan would cost much the same as the Manxman, but then the island has loads of money.  

[Omobono]

great in theory  but where is the sense in running the Ben or Manxman into liverpool if they can not carry freight or operate after a certain time  at night 

dont forget one of the regular overnight sailings from Heysham  departs at 2 am meaning  marks and spencer  and tesco can receive their fresh food consignments 

A golden opportunity was missed by government when an offer to share facilities with Stena line at 12 quays turned down  it would probably have saved £90 million and logistically was a much better option  as a second port to operate to the isle of man and Tesco and marks and Spencer depots are just outside Chester ,

but we now have to pay the price for not having the right people making major decisions regarding our essential transport and shipping links 

[Nellie]

10 minutes ago, Omobono said:

but we now have to pay the price for not having the right people making major decisions regarding our essential transport and shipping links 

We're going to be living with the consequences of letting Anne Reynolds loose on our Airport, and then our sea ports, for a generation, or more.

[Ringy Rose]

23 minutes ago, Omobono said:

A golden opportunity was missed by government when an offer to share facilities with Stena line at 12 quays turned down

There was no offer to share. And the Ben stopped going to Birkenhead because the linkspans designed specifically for Stena’s e-Flexer ferries aren’t compatible with the Ben.

Heysham is good for freight traffic. It is primarily a freight port. It is what it is designed to do.

[Beelzebub3]

On 9/21/2023 at 7:52 PM, Jetfour said:

“But conventional ferries can do 30 knots- Stena have several.”

indeed they do, but for years, they have been running them at ‘best economical speed.’  The so called Superfast ferries serving Cairnryan- Belfast tootle about at 17-19 kts.  Yes, they can do the guts of 30 kts, but they never do!

Stena Superfast VII currently steaming towards Cairnryan at 22.7 knots courtesy of Marinetraffic.

[Manxman2000]

6 hours ago, Omobono said:

great in theory  but where is the sense in running the Ben or Manxman into liverpool if they can not carry freight 

This info is about 10 years old so make adjustments,  Douglas to Heysham 

Ben.   £5000 in fuel

Manannan. Same route. £15000 in mgo 

that’s why the Ben goes to Belfast

[Omobono]

42 minutes ago, Manxman2000 said:

This info is about 10 years old so make adjustments,  Douglas to Heysham 

Ben.   £5000 in fuel

Manannan. Same route. £15000 in mgo 

that’s why the Ben goes to Belfast

and manxman  will probably somewhere in the middle   I understand she is  quite thirsty and only runs on quality gas oil 

[Cambon]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:00 PM, Andy Onchan said:

Don't forget there's a max speed limit once entering into the river. So probably 4 hours.

Manannan could do it faster on four engines, but it is in fuel save mode most of the time. Prior to covid, i was a regular day tripper. The crossing from exiting Douglas harbour to entering the mersey was two hours, give or take five minutes, every time. Last year I did a couple of trips on it and one this year. The same journey, on four engines, is now two hours twenty minutes, give or take. 
 

Just for comparison, when they brought the Manannan up from the southern hemisphere, through the Straits of Hormuz, she was given full throttle, and hit 70mph. Albeit being empty of passengers and cargo. But even with a decent load, she is capable of much more than any of us have ever seen. 

[Omobono]

5 minutes ago, Cambon said:

Manannan could do it faster on four engines, but it is in fuel save mode most of the time. Prior to covid, i was a regular day tripper. The crossing from exiting Douglas harbour to entering the mersey was two hours, give or take five minutes, every time. Last year I did a couple of trips on it and one this year. The same journey, on four engines, is now two hours twenty minutes, give or take. 
 

Just for comparison, when they brought the Manannan up from the southern hemisphere, through the Straits of Hormuz, she was given full throttle, and hit 70mph. Albeit being empty of passengers and cargo. But even with a decent load, she is capable of much more than any of us have ever seen. 

but you needed the entire resources  of the US navy to achieve  that performance  I understand she uses  approx 54 litres of fuel  per  Nautical mile  but the big problem will come when the city fathers in Liverpool declare the centre a  ultra low emission zone (ULEZ) and vehicles entering the city will have to pay  a fee , 

more grief for the travelling public making Liverpool a very costly mistake for  the isle of Man government  and one we will be paying dearly for ,for many years to come ,thats if we ever find out what the final true  cost  of the    passenger terminal  is ,

[Jetfour]

5 hours ago, Beelzebub3 said:

Stena Superfast VII currently steaming towards Cairnryan at 22.7 knots courtesy of Marinetraffic.

Indeed.  19 point something knots boat speed plus the tide under her.  At the same time, Superfast VIII was going in the opposite direction showing 18.9 kts.  Maybe 20 kts boat speed less the current against her.  Also strengthening wind from the south-west helps the Cairnryan bound ferry and retards the Belfast bound ferry.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Jetfour

[Blade Runner]

9 hours ago, Omobono said:

great in theory  but where is the sense in running the Ben or Manxman into Liverpool if they can not carry freight or operate after a certain time  at night 

don't forget one of the regular overnight sailings from Heysham  departs at 2 am meaning  marks and spencer  and Tesco can receive their fresh food consignments 

A golden opportunity was missed by government when an offer to share facilities with Stena line at 12 quays turned down  it would probably have saved £90 million and logistically was a much better option  as a second port to operate to the isle of man and Tesco and marks and Spencer depots are just outside Chester ,

but we now have to pay the price for not having the right people making major decisions regarding our essential transport and shipping links 

All of the above is/ are correct.

Could the new dock be sold to another shipping company? Cruise ship type operation?

The island needs to offload this white elephant ASAP.

What are the running costs likely to be? What are the "maintenance" lease payments? No planning consent for freight or night sailings - Seriously who signed this sh1t off? Were they not fully in control of their faculties? 

It really looks like the £100 million shed is even more of a waste of money than everyone first thought.

It the island was a South American country someone, or more likely several people would be taken near to that new dock and shot in the forehead.....

If a cruise co or similar offered £20 million, their arm should be ripped off. This white elephant will drag the island down, it must, and will always bleed money hand over fist, it cant ever be profitable, even if you ignored the monstrous capital cost as IOM Gov tends to do when making up financial statements..

E.T.A  All of my daughters now have their houses up for sale as they don't want negative equity (they are highly leveraged house wise to be fair but so are a lot of others).

The also don't see any future in being either care nurses or physio therapists on the island long term.

Their partners can all work from home so where they are based does not matter as long as the interwebs thing is okay.

Tax wise, their partners, who earn the main income, can still use the island for tax planning measures so a win win for all.

That is a lot easier if you have lived here for a while and have friends here.🙂