A P&O situation looming in the IOMSPCo?

[Roger Mexico]

21 hours ago, John Wright said:

And still no one is able to say what if any real benefit this brings

Well quite.  But it's very much in the current civil service playbook.  Whatever you do, you must copy what is being done in England, even if it's unsuited to Manx circumstances and isn't even working there.

And if the Manxman was specifically designed to fit this plan and so made larger than it needed to be, not only have ended up paying extra for it, but also £6 million for the harbour changes required to deal with it.  And all that's assuming that the new boat will work perfectly.

[Roger Mexico]

11 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Does it? Provide a link? 

They certainly specified a dividend of £1 million to be received in this year's budget.

[Banker]

38 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

The Treasury now sets an annual levy on the Steamie profits. That is the Govt. getting involved and making demands.

 

They don’t, steam packet decided to pay£1m from a profit of over £11m so less than 10%

[2112]

44 minutes ago, Banker said:

They don’t, steam packet decided to pay£1m from a profit of over £11m so less than 10%

If Treasury says jump, the MD of the Steam Packet says how high, and does as he is told. As was the case, in the 2023 Budget where the Treasury Minister decreed that the Steam Packet had to pay. It wasn’t a case of offering to pay. 

[Non-Believer]

47 minutes ago, Banker said:

They don’t, steam packet decided to pay£1m from a profit of over £11m so less than 10%

The Steam Packet were told. As were the Post Office.

[Banker]

9 minutes ago, 2112 said:

If Treasury says jump, the MD of the Steam Packet says how high, and does as he is told. As was the case, in the 2023 Budget where the Treasury Minister decreed that the Steam Packet had to pay. It wasn’t a case of offering to pay. 

Sorry but you haven’t a clue!! If Treasury were dictating how much money do you not think they would have asked for more? Steam packet said we’re paying you £1m & minister agreed.

The MD does not answer to treasury but to the chairman & board like any company .

Obviously treasury ultimately has power to dismiss the board but they need those experienced directors to run it.

Perhaps you can provide evidence to support your claims eg board minutes or from an FOI ?

Edited October 4, 2023 by Banker

[Andy Onchan]

59 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Well quite.  But it's very much in the current civil service playbook.  Whatever you do, you must copy what is being done in England, even if it's unsuited to Manx circumstances and isn't even working there.

And if the Manxman was specifically designed to fit this plan and so made larger than it needed to be, not only have ended up paying extra for it, but also £6 million for the harbour changes required to deal with it.  And all that's assuming that the new boat will work perfectly.

That's why the company must be allowed to run the business, not all of the management are Cyril's.

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

They certainly specified a dividend of £1 million to be received in this year's budget.

That’s a dividend, declared by directors and approved by the shareholder, in case of SPCo.

Its not a dividend or tax, but a levy on the PO

[woolley]

5 hours ago, John Wright said:

 

Except, that’s not practical.

Any benefit is illusory.

The boats run to a published timetable. You’d end up running it in reverse, which would cause mayhem, for passengers and freight.

The timetable doesn’t have margin for catch up and you’d have to drop a sailing at some stage to get back in synch.

Goodness me. This is nonsense. It isn't a difficult concept to grasp and it has the complete opposite effect to that you describe. If the next crew is on board rather than in Douglas, they can sign on wherever the boat is. That is the crux of the matter.

Look at last Thursday. The Wednesday sailings were cancelled due to the weather, so the day crew took Manxman to Heysham empty. She left Douglas about 0800 and arrived around midday before the worst of the weather. She sat out the storm there. Consequently, the night crew were then able to bring her back to the the Island, on schedule, 0215 Thursday. Under the old arrangements this couldn't have happened. She'd have been stuck in Douglas until 0845 Thursday with another day's deliveries to the Island lost.

Going on from there, as far as resilience is concerned, it's quite possible that such a window as the one that allowed the 0215 Thursday sailing might be the only opportunity to supply the Island over several days of winter weather.

I think it's reasonable to want to offer the most robust service possible to the Island. How you compensate the crews to operate it is a matter for agreement. It must be possible to square the circle. There will be ways, there always are. Perhaps neither side is very good at negotiating.

Edited October 4, 2023 by woolley

[Non-Believer]

3 hours ago, Banker said:

They don’t, steam packet decided to pay£1m from a profit of over £11m so less than 10%

You are arguing semantics unless you seriously believe that any "commercial" enterprise "volunteers" to hand over £1M a year without its arm up its back.

The fact is that the Steamie now hand over £1M a year to Treasury, with that figure likely to rise if the Steamie increases profitability.

"Milking" is the expression but it needs to be remembered where that money is ultimately coming from. The travelling fare payers and the freight shippers who pass their costs on to the consumer in the end, forcing up prices of everything that is brought here by surface travel.

[Banker]

9 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

You are arguing semantics unless you seriously believe that any "commercial" enterprise "volunteers" to hand over £1M a year without its arm up its back.

The fact is that the Steamie now hand over £1M a year to Treasury, with that figure likely to rise if the Steamie increases profitability.

"Milking" is the expression but it needs to be remembered where that money is ultimately coming from. The travelling fare payers and the freight shippers who pass their costs on to the consumer in the end, forcing up prices of everything that is brought here by surface travel.

You haven’t a clue as usual so absolutely no evidence to back up your claims as usual 

[Gladys]

14 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

You are arguing semantics unless you seriously believe that any "commercial" enterprise "volunteers" to hand over £1M a year without its arm up its back.

Commercial enterprises pay dividends, that's how they work.  

The directors recommend a dividend in light of the  financial position of the company. AFAIK the Steammie is still a company registered under the Companies Act, so the same rules apply to it as any other company. 

[woolley]

1 minute ago, Gladys said:

Commercial enterprises pay dividends, that's how they work.  

The directors recommend a dividend in light of the  financial position of the company. AFAIK the Steammie is still a company registered under the Companies Act, so the same rules apply to it as any other company. 

I was going to post that but, hey, what's the point? Thanks, Gladys.

The directors have a duty to act in the interests of the shareholders, in this case the government and, by extension, all of us. That means paying a return on investment wherever possible, after taking account of liabilities and having an eye to future investment required for the continuation of operations.

[Andy Onchan]

43 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Commercial enterprises pay dividends, that's how they work.  

The directors recommend a dividend in light of the  financial position of the company. AFAIK the Steammie is still a company registered under the Companies Act, so the same rules apply to it as any other company. 

In principle yes but you just know that there will have been a phone call from Treasury.

[Roger Mexico]

3 hours ago, John Wright said:

That’s a dividend, declared by directors and approved by the shareholder, in case of SPCo.

Its not a dividend or tax, but a levy on the PO

Yes I'm sure the Treasury will have been shocked and delighted to discover that they were going to get a dividend as approve by the Steam Packet's only shareholder ... the Treasury.

In reality we all know that the contribution to be made by the S/P will have been a matter of negotiation between S/P management and the Treasury (and the PO will have been the same).  The only interesting thing is how low the figure is.