Benefits cheating

[forestboy]

15 minutes ago, HeliX said:

But pretty much only when poor people do it does it become newsworthy. Wealthy people are doing it every single day for much higher sums.

Evidence?

[HeliX]

7 minutes ago, forestboy said:

Evidence?

https://taxscouts.com/blog/how-much-is-lost-to-tax-evasion-in-the-uk/

Not to mention corporate handouts, bailouts, etc.

[The Voice of Reason]

28 minutes ago, HeliX said:

But pretty much only when poor people do it does it become newsworthy. Wealthy people are doing it every single day for much higher sums.

I would not be so sure about that ( apart from the much higher sums bit) The dubious tax practices of giant corporations like Amazon and Google etc are well publicised. Like the “Double Irish with a Dutch sandwich” is well documented.

Plus individuals like say Jimmy Carr and various sporting and other celebrities are often exposed in the media for their ( or advisors) tax avoidance or evasion strategies.

Anyway be you rich or poor you have a moral and legal obligation not to defraud the public purse.

The overwhelming majority of benefit claimants only claim those benefits to which they are entitled, yet the benefits cheats ( let’s call them as they are) tarnish the reputations of those who have legitimate rights to those benefits.

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by The Voice of Reason

[TheTeapot]

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

No one is “hating on the poor”  

Just expressing disapproval of dishonesty , fraudulent behaviour and, thereby effectively stealing

Condemnation without consideration. 

[quilp]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

But pretty much only when poor people do it does it become newsworthy...

 

1 hour ago, forestboy said:

Evidence?

This 'poor' young fella here..?

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/douglas-man-awaits-sentence-after-spitting-in-police-officers-mouth/

Society is to blame.

An'that. 

[Manxman1234]

1 hour ago, Barlow said:

Vapes these days of course, plus mobile phone, Netflix, tattoos

 

eta:

A bit Daily Mail-esque, I know, but how accurate is it.

Should be food vouchers , rent and heating vouchers 

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

Condemnation without consideration. 

Eh?

[HeliX]

1 hour ago, quilp said:

 

This 'poor' young fella here..?

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/douglas-man-awaits-sentence-after-spitting-in-police-officers-mouth/

Society is to blame.

An'that. 

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at, but obviously violence is not acceptable. Not sure what this has to do with someone not updating their situation re: benefits or someone stealing to feed their family, though.

 

As far as "Society is to blame", well, for some of it yes. Society is decidedly unfair. I've done alright in my life, but a great deal of it was luck. Lucky to have the family I did, lucky to have the upbringing I did, lucky to have the ability I did. There are plenty of my peers who work as hard or harder than I do who just never had those advantages, and who are distinctly worse off as a result. Is that fair? Of course not. And under them are the people in real dire straits, who might need to steal basics. Is that fair? Also no.

Yes there are some people who steal for the hell of it, or who commit benefits fraud because they want to, but it's a real minority.

I just find the demonisation of people who are likely struggling, when there are so many who are not struggling but who are willfully fleecing all of us, to be rather unsavoury.

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, HeliX said:

I just find the demonisation of people who are likely struggling, when there are so many who are not struggling but who are willfully fleecing all of us, to be rather unsavoury.

I am not demonising anyone. But I’m not impressed with benefit cheats ( criminals)

I am not struggling, nor am I willfully fleecing anyone.

If you find that unsavory so be it.

[thommo2010]

Maybe there should be a sticky about what crime is acceptable and which crimes aren't. Would save a lot of back and forth

[2bees]

16 hours ago, quilp said:

 

This 'poor' young fella here..?

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/douglas-man-awaits-sentence-after-spitting-in-police-officers-mouth/

Society is to blame.

An'that. 

Nah, sounds like he’s off the rails - drinking all day isn’t normal behaviour for anyone let alone a 20 year old, bit tragic. 
 

@thommo2010 isn’t that what happens already? Some crimes are more illegal than others and rich criminal types of people are less likely to attract police attention/convictions than poor.

[HeliX]

28 minutes ago, 2bees said:

Nah, sounds like he’s off the rails - drinking all day isn’t normal behaviour for anyone let alone a 20 year old, bit tragic. 
 

@thommo2010 isn’t that what happens already? Some crimes are more illegal than others and rich criminal types of people are less likely to attract police attention/convictions than poor.

Any crime that's punishable by a fine is legal if you're rich.

[CrazyDave]

23 hours ago, Barlow said:

Oh, here we go again. Then your child needs a better parent. We have a social security system that will prevent anyone needing food to the extent they need to steal, but apart from that you can get a job that will pay for food for both you and your child.

And I think you will find that any child would rather starve than have their parent steal food for them.

And I think that you will find that any child would have respect for a parent who works to feed them.

 

What a load of crao.

If you met me today I am am fairly successful bloke.  Nice car, lovely family, nice house, good job etc etc.

15 years ago I was the same.  If anything I had a good chunk more disposable cash.

For reasons I won’t go into there was a period in between when I was on my arse.  No access to a bank account, no ability to pay for food or fuel.

Guess what.  Anyone who thinks our social security system stepped in and helped is deluded.  Only for one very good friend I could well have ended up needing to steal food.  How do you get to the food bank with zero money and no phone credit.  
 

I am not prepared to get into a debate about it, but will say that anyone who thinks it’s people own fault that they end up in such situations or that the state will help has led a fortunate and sheltered life and would more than likely benefit from a life lesson and reality check themselves.

sanctimonious

/ˌsaŋ(k)tɪˈməʊnɪəs/

 

adjective

DEROGATORY

1. making a show of being morally superior to other people.

Edited October 7, 2023 by CrazyDave

[thommo2010]

37 minutes ago, 2bees said:

Nah, sounds like he’s off the rails - drinking all day isn’t normal behaviour for anyone let alone a 20 year old, bit tragic. 
 

@thommo2010 isn’t that what happens already? Some crimes are more illegal than others and rich criminal types of people are less likely to attract police attention/convictions than poor.

When I was 20 going out getting smashed all day was a regular thing. Didn't result in me assaulting people though but let's blame everything/everyone else rather than the individual who carried out the act

[Fred the shred]

People who are hungry or worse see their family hungry are one thing but some of the people who have been caught fiddling their benefits are not in that category they are just taking the proverbial knowing if they are caught they will just be told to pay it back at a going rate of about £10 a week , sometimes out of benefits.    What is the deterrent?   It is like taking out a long term loan without any interest  with the chance of not being caught and not having to repay a penny.     I do not believe that a fraction of the people that embark on such a journey get caught,   it is quite tricky to prove someone who has a partner is actually living with them or just staying odd nights or if they are contributing to a household especially if they have employment with shift work or travel.   That is just one example.   One person recently had a large sum of money in a different bank account to the one they used.    How much money is getting paid out fraudulently we will never know.