Benefits cheating

[code99]

Sanctimonious purveyors of hyperboles like “Thou shalt not steal” have been hypocrites since the beginning of times. They frequently and expediently forget other famous morals, e.g; ‘he among you who is without sin, shall cast the first stone.’

In the Victorian era the fortunate few (who often made their vast fortunes by ruthlessly pillaging and destroying ‘others’…) convinced themselves that awful workhouses were fantastic ‘safety nets’ for the poor. What is happening now is that many (but obviously not all) self-made folk and corporate executives often badger their accountants to; a) maximise the declared profits, b) minimise the amount of tax paid, and c) minimise how much they pay to their staff. The end result is that other taxpayers pick up the (unpaid) tab. These few self-enriching individuals acquire fleets of vintage cars, private jets and go on luxury world cruises whilst the poorly paid workers have their incomes subsidised by the benefits system and/or by frequenting foodbanks. IMHO, in historical terms and adjusted for political ‘inflation’ of the societal changes in the 21C, the relative misdemeanours committed by a small number of contemporary benefit cheats are no different to when poor wretches were gaoled (or punished by being shipped off to Australia) for stealing as little as a loaf of bread. But hypocrisy does not end there. For example, international investigative journalists have concluded that the IOM have been issuing licences to e-gambling companies (the e-gambling industry has been described by the UK Mental Health experts as “rapacious”) without thoroughly checking the identities of the ultimate beneficial owners of those companies such as sports betting, i.e., potentially dodgy money that no one has any idea about the true ownership of. Anyone raising concerns about various harms that the e-gambling industry causes, albeit to a relatively small number of punters, is habitually stonewalled with a riposte from the industry stalwarts along the lines of “If we don’t do it someone else will”.

IMHO, the complacency and indifference ("Seeing no Evil, hearing no Evil, and speaking no Evil!") are partially responsible for the election of incompetent unaccountable politicians who (it seems) keep throwing large amounts of taxpayers’ good money after bad on all sorts of poorly executed projects and schemes; unsubstantiated and unaffordable promises which are becoming pipe dreams. It is only recently that the public in general has become concerned about the state of IOMG’s finances, especially its depleting Reserves. The collateral damage of the past profligate spending is a sharp decline in the quality of our health services, housing, education, transport links, etc, etc which are now all under increasing pressure to do more with less even though the numbers of civil servants have been swelling over the few years. Incidentally, the Airport could prove to be a real doozy. Chris Thomas mentioned months ago that perhaps £300m might be required to fix all of the Airport’s issues. As the bottom of the financial barrel is becoming increasingly visible to more and more people, where will the millions needed to fix the Airport come from? Besides trotting out CoMin party-line messages on Radio ‘Ga Ga’, to-date this Government has not set out credible plans for a sustainable financial future.

In the meantime, chasing after small time benefit cheats is easy (and popular), so let’s spur on those who are ‘permanently outraged about something or other’, to get upset about something that is relatively small and irrelevant – at least that way they/ we will be able to forget about the bigger picture.

[Barlow]

3 hours ago, CrazyDave said:

What a load of crao.

If you met me today I am am fairly successful bloke.  Nice car, lovely family, nice house, good job etc etc.

15 years ago I was the same.  If anything I had a good chunk more disposable cash.

For reasons I won’t go into there was a period in between when I was on my arse.  No access to a bank account, no ability to pay for food or fuel.

Guess what.  Anyone who thinks our social security system stepped in and helped is deluded.  Only for one very good friend I could well have ended up needing to steal food.  How do you get to the food bank with zero money and no phone credit.  
 

I am not prepared to get into a debate about it, but will say that anyone who thinks it’s people own fault that they end up in such situations or that the state will help has led a fortunate and sheltered life and would more than likely benefit from a life lesson and reality check themselves.

sanctimonious

/ˌsaŋ(k)tɪˈməʊnɪəs/

 

adjective

DEROGATORY

1. making a show of being morally superior to other people.

Sorry to hear of your fall.

Don't worry, I have been there done that - got the T-shirt, got the mug (but lost the house, lost the car, lost the cat). That is all another subject. My "load of crap" post was referring to children going starving and the need or otherwise for a parent to steal to keep them alive.

 

[Banker]

2 hours ago, Fred the shred said:

People who are hungry or worse see their family hungry are one thing but some of the people who have been caught fiddling their benefits are not in that category they are just taking the proverbial knowing if they are caught they will just be told to pay it back at a going rate of about £10 a week , sometimes out of benefits.    What is the deterrent?   It is like taking out a long term loan without any interest  with the chance of not being caught and not having to repay a penny.     I do not believe that a fraction of the people that embark on such a journey get caught,   it is quite tricky to prove someone who has a partner is actually living with them or just staying odd nights or if they are contributing to a household especially if they have employment with shift work or travel.   That is just one example.   One person recently had a large sum of money in a different bank account to the one they used.    How much money is getting paid out fraudulently we will never know.

 

They normally get caught because someone shops them , locals know the cheats & when they start bragging about it or just get too much & are always spending money when others are scrimping sometimes they just don’t like the person. 

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, code99 said:

IMHO, in historical terms and adjusted for political ‘inflation’ of the societal changes in the 21C, the relative misdemeanours committed by a small number of contemporary benefit cheats are no different to when poor wretches were gaoled (or punished by being shipped off to Australia) for stealing as little as a loaf of bread.

 

Well for “ political inflation” of societal changes in the 21st century I would substitute “ increased enlightenment and understanding “ 

Talk of modern day equivalence of gaol or being shipped off to Australia, when comparing benefits cheating now  to nicking a loaf of bread in the past is just plain stupid. Society has moved on.

 

[code99]

40 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well for “ political inflation” of societal changes in the 21st century I would substitute “ increased enlightenment and understanding “ 

Talk of modern day equivalence of gaol or being shipped off to Australia, when comparing benefits cheating now  to nicking a loaf of bread in the past is just plain stupid. Society has moved on.

 

You are missing the point - big people/ organisations/ governments are able to loot with impunity. Little people get punished. 

[The Voice of Reason]

Just now, code99 said:

You are missing the point - big people/ organisations/ governments are able to loot with impunity. Little people get punished. 

No I’m not . All people who loot , big or small should be punished.

it’s just this idea that you should be excused from stealing because others are maybe doing it on a bigger scale that gets my goat.

[code99]

5 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

No I’m not . All people who loot , big or small should be punished.

it’s just this idea that you should be excused from stealing because others are maybe doing it on a bigger scale that gets my goat.

I did not say "excused".

[The Voice of Reason]

34 minutes ago, code99 said:

I did not say "excused".

No you didn’t. Apologies.
 

But anyone reading what you did say :-

“In the meantime, chasing after small time benefit cheats is easy (and popular), so let’s spur on those who are ‘permanently outraged about something or other’, to get upset about something that is relatively small and irrelevant – at least that way they/ we will be able to forget about the bigger picture.”

could  be forgiven for thinking that your use of the word  “irrelevant “ means that you don’t think it’s worth chasing after small time benefit cheats.

Theft is theft and should be prosecuted in all it’s forms.

[2bees]

22 hours ago, thommo2010 said:

When I was 20 going out getting smashed all day was a regular thing. Didn't result in me assaulting people though but let's blame everything/everyone else rather than the individual who carried out the act

Getting smashed all day has never been a regular thing, it’s destructive behaviour, regardless of whether you can “handle your ale” or not (obviously you can and this kid cannot). He is totally to blame for his actions, did a vile thing and should be taking a serious look at where his life is going wrong.

[quilp]

A swift, well-aimed kick up the fucking arse and 2 years in the Marines would  help sort him out. 

[Barlow]

15 minutes ago, quilp said:

A swift, well-aimed kick up the fucking arse and 2 years in the Marines would  help sort him out. 

You're probably not wrong but I don't think the Marines or the army want shit like that anyway.

[CrazyDave]

47 minutes ago, 2bees said:

Getting smashed all day has never been a regular thing, it’s destructive behaviour, regardless of whether you can “handle your ale” or not (obviously you can and this kid cannot). He is totally to blame for his actions, did a vile thing and should be taking a serious look at where his life is going wrong.

There are plenty of people who did day drinking sessions in their twenties without it ever causing any issue.

There are plenty of people who drink through the day on a fairly regular basis through their forties without it ever being destructive.  I did it with a group of mates yesterday.  One is a teacher, one copper, a lawyer and various others in the group and we meet at least one Saturday a month.

Some people can’t handle it and it cause them issue sos they should avoid, but to suggest it’s destructive behaviour in every case is silly.

 

[HeliX]

28 minutes ago, quilp said:

A swift, well-aimed kick up the fucking arse and 2 years in the Marines would  help sort him out. 

That's what we need on the island, not just an arsehole but an arsehole who has been trained to kill foreign kids.

[The Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, HeliX said:

That's what we need on the island, not just an arsehole but an arsehole who has been trained to kill foreign kids.

Before the foreign kids kill them?

[HeliX]

25 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Before the foreign kids kill them?

Not usually, no.

But know what would remove that possibility? Not engaging in illegal wars!