Tesco buy all nine Shoprite supermarkets- Monopoly?

[Fred the shred]

Gawd 🤣

[Gladys]

48 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I'm not confused. It was a discussion. I questioned it and accepted the reply. I merely said it's not what I visualised a flood plain to be. 

Another question. If a building or area that is within a flood plain is raised to a level at which it never floods, is it still within a flood plain or does it become surrounded by a flood plain. Question. Not banging on? 

TBF, HD, you disputed that:

1.  it was a flood plain;

2. that there had ever been any floods (other than a puddle in the car park); and

3) questioned whether the store had, itself, flooded. 

Given answers on all three. 

So, in summary, that area is an area geographically, and in fact, susceptible to flooding and has been historically.  Whether that is technically a flood plain, not sure, but it has a certain 'quack' about it.   

Human intervention has diverted/contained the rivers that contribute to it and recent construction has mitigated the potential for damage to buildings. That being the case, and as we all know, nature eventually wins back what is lost, so vulnerable.  So, any construction there will have to take into account the potential for flooding.  Whether that is to elevate it (matters not if it is in or surrounded by a flood plain) or take other measures, it will boil down to whether a development is economically viable. 

Really don't know what you are arguing about. 

[Happier diner]

Just now, Gladys said:

TBF, HD, you disputed that:

1.  it was a flood plain;

2. that there had ever been any floods (other than a puddle in the car park); and

3) questioned whether the store had, itself, flooded. 

Given answers on all three. 

So, in summary, that area is an area geographically, and in fact, susceptible to flooding and has been historically.  Whether that is technically a flood plain, not sure, but it has a certain 'quack' about it.   

Human intervention has diverted/contained the rivers that contribute to it and recent construction has mitigated the potential for damage to buildings. That being the case, and as we all know, nature eventually wins back what is lost, so vulnerable.  So, any construction there will have to take into account the potential for flooding.  Whether that is to elevate it (matters not if it is in or surrounded by a flood plain) or take other measures, it will boil down to whether a development is economically viable. 

Really don't know what you are arguing about. 

I'm not arguing. I think you have presented a good summary.

If you look back you will see all my posts pose a question. 

It was merely an inquisitiveness. Yes I doubted but now I am clear. 

I agree that human intervention over the years may have confused geographical fact. 

[mollag]

It is a curious area, I worked at Manx Ices on the Lake road and we prepped for high spring tides with sandbagging.

The Peel Road factory was along the river also but raised and the river canalised as John Wright says so no problem

Across on the Old Castletown Road side, Qualtroughs, a shipbuilder converted to a Mineral Water manufacturer, there being opposite a well souce of quality water quite unlike the rest on the Island, I recall the pump field as we called it,from there they pumped under the road and bottled.

The pump enclosure can be seen low right.

[Roger Mexico]

3 hours ago, John Wright said:

You then repeatedly denied the existence of a River Glass flood plain.

To be mega-pedantic it's the River Douglas flood plain as the maps show the combined river is called that after the confluence of the Rivers Dhoo and Glass behind the Power Station.  The Glass, as you pointed out before, also has its own floodplain in Port-e-Chee Meadows

3 hours ago, Mercenary said:

Closing for a few hours once every 10 years with no damage is worth writing off a prime site in Douglas for?  

Perhaps not for a retail store, especially if measures have been taken to protect services etc.  But it's not good for housing, which is what someone had been suggesting for the area.

[GD4ELI]

6 hours ago, mollag said:

It is a curious area, I worked at Manx Ices on the Lake road and we prepped for high spring tides with sandbagging.

The Peel Road factory was along the river also but raised and the river canalised as John Wright says so no problem

Across on the Old Castletown Road side, Qualtroughs, a shipbuilder converted to a Mineral Water manufacturer, there being opposite a well souce of quality water quite unlike the rest on the Island, I recall the pump field as we called it,from there they pumped under the road and bottled.

The pump enclosure can be seen low right.

Great photo.

[mollag]

6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

To be mega-pedantic it's the River Douglas flood plain as the maps show the combined river is called that after the confluence of the Rivers Dhoo and Glass behind the Power Station.  The Glass, as you pointed out before, also has its own floodplain in Port-e-Chee Meadows

Perhaps not for a retail store, especially if measures have been taken to protect services etc.  But it's not good for housing, which is what someone had been suggesting for the area.

There is housing there already, and an apartment complex with below road level parking, a pub, a Railway station and various businesses, all on the level of the Lake road, you build to your enviroment, for that area lifting the levels with infill would work, lest we forget North Quay was not always that level, it was raised to the Quay side walll level.

Edited October 19, 2023 by mollag

[Wake Up Call]

Whitestone site, Victoria Road offices and Winerite = sites for affordable housing in town.

Add the old prison, Park Road, Summerland and there is simply no need to rip up green fields.

[Beelzebub3]

12 minutes ago, Wake Up Call said:

Whitestone site, Victoria Road offices and Winerite = sites for affordable housing in town.

Add the old prison, Park Road, Summerland and there is simply no need to rip up green fields.

A whole lot cheaper to build on a greenfield site than on an existing site, why do you think there is a reluctance to re-develop eg old prison site/ park road school /nurse's home /middlemarch /summerland and that is only in Douglas.

[WTF]

8 hours ago, mollag said:

It is a curious area, I worked at Manx Ices on the Lake road and we prepped for high spring tides with sandbagging.

The Peel Road factory was along the river also but raised and the river canalised as John Wright says so no problem

Across on the Old Castletown Road side, Qualtroughs, a shipbuilder converted to a Mineral Water manufacturer, there being opposite a well souce of quality water quite unlike the rest on the Island, I recall the pump field as we called it,from there they pumped under the road and bottled.

The pump enclosure can be seen low right.

wow, without being told i'd have struggled to recognise that picture as douglas , what year was that taken ?

[Gladys]

9 minutes ago, Beelzebub3 said:

A whole lot cheaper to build on a greenfield site than on an existing site, why do you think there is a reluctance to re-develop eg old prison site/ park road school /nurse's home /middlemarch /summerland and that is only in Douglas.

Sorry for my ignorance, and it's a genuine question, but why is it so much cheaper to build on green field sites? I get that access, and site size and shape may pose difficulties, but all these sites are already cleared and have the usual services to them.   Wouldn’t there be a sale price  premium on being centrally located that would offset some of those costs?  Is there something,  apart from a handout, that can be done, like clearance of any ground pollution issues, renewal of the services on them? 

[mad_manx]

2 hours ago, mollag said:

There is housing there already, and an apartment complex with below road level parking, a pub, a Railway station and various businesses, all on the level of the Lake road, you build to your enviroment, for that area lifting the levels with infill would work, lest we forget North Quay was not always that level, it was raised to the Quay side walll level.

I used to live in the Quay West  around 10+ years ago and remember the basement car park .  There was an issue with flooding   in the area .  I don't remember if water actually entered the car park . There were quite a few expensive cars in the basement.. I didn't have a car at the time.

[WTF]

23 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Sorry for my ignorance, and it's a genuine question, but why is it so much cheaper to build on green field sites? I get that access, and site size and shape may pose difficulties, but all these sites are already cleared and have the usual services to them.   Wouldn’t there be a sale price  premium on being centrally located that would offset some of those costs?  Is there something,  apart from a handout, that can be done, like clearance of any ground pollution issues, renewal of the services on them? 

i wondered those points too ,  my own thoughts are that it is cheaper/easier to start with a clean slate as you decide where  the power and drains and water supply are to be placed , moving these services that are in place already to suit your new building layout is possibly more complicated and the existing services may not provide enough capacity for what you intend to build.

[Happier diner]

2 hours ago, WTF said:

i wondered those points too ,  my own thoughts are that it is cheaper/easier to start with a clean slate as you decide where  the power and drains and water supply are to be placed , moving these services that are in place already to suit your new building layout is possibly more complicated and the existing services may not provide enough capacity for what you intend to build.

Brown field sites have the risk of contaminated ground be found.

[Beelzebub3]

3 hours ago, Gladys said:

Sorry for my ignorance, and it's a genuine question, but why is it so much cheaper to build on green field sites? I get that access, and site size and shape may pose difficulties, but all these sites are already cleared and have the usual services to them.   Wouldn’t there be a sale price  premium on being centrally located that would offset some of those costs?  Is there something,  apart from a handout, that can be done, like clearance of any ground pollution issues, renewal of the services on them? 

Usually there are a lot of restrictions in a built up area and stricter planning as well as if building housing sewerage and storm water drains need to be adequate ,this is a lot easier when in an non built up area, although services etc may be on site they may not be where they are required and costs a lot of time and money to move where required. the other problem in town is that access and egress onto the site can be a nightmare as road closures etc may be required as the area will be still open to resident's business in the area also.