former soldier gets himself into trouble in the co op , with previous bad behaviour record

[Omobono]

former  Eastern European soldier in a drunken state head buts coop manager after  being refused the purchase of alcohol  and has to be restrained , he  has a previous offence and court order , to be of good behaviour 

so why is his work permit not revoked,   ( thats if he is not in receipt of benefit )   and he is deported from the isle of Man  , this is what the work permit system was designed to prevent , yet every day we see people abusing the system , and appering before the courts , 

I just hope Tynwald members think long and hard about removing  any  parts  of the work permit system  or at the very least find out exactly what the legislation  sets out to do to protect this islands people   and Manx workers 

[Gladys]

How would the work permit system have prevented this?

[WTF]

4 minutes ago, Gladys said:

How would the work permit system have prevented this?

i think it can maybe revoke his work permit so he has to leave the island as he maybe doesn't qualify for benefits yet?? no benefits and no work = no money .  it wouldn't prevent this but it would stop repeat offences as he wouldn't be here.

[Manxman1234]

28 minutes ago, Omobono said:

former  Eastern European soldier in a drunken state head buts coop manager after  being refused the purchase of alcohol  and has to be restrained , he  has a previous offence and court order , to be of good behaviour 

so why is his work permit not revoked,   ( thats if he is not in receipt of benefit )   and he is deported from the isle of Man  , this is what the work permit system was designed to prevent , yet every day we see people abusing the system , and appering before the courts , 

I just hope Tynwald members think long and hard about removing  any  parts  of the work permit system  or at the very least find out exactly what the legislation  sets out to do to protect this islands people   and Manx workers 

Maybe not on a work permit? 

[Moghrey Mie]

32 minutes ago, Omobono said:

former  Eastern European soldier in a drunken state head buts coop manager after  being refused the purchase of alcohol  and has to be restrained , he  has a previous offence and court order , to be of good behaviour 

so why is his work permit not revoked,   ( thats if he is not in receipt of benefit )   and he is deported from the isle of Man  , this is what the work permit system was designed to prevent , yet every day we see people abusing the system , and appering before the courts , 

I just hope Tynwald members think long and hard about removing  any  parts  of the work permit system  or at the very least find out exactly what the legislation  sets out to do to protect this islands people   and Manx workers 

He has stopped drinking and found a job apparently. So maybe he doesn't need a work permit.

[mollag]

I thought a work permit was needed to be able work on the IOM, is one needed to reside here?

[Manxman1234]

I’m still confused by this, just because someone is Eastern European doesn’t mean they need a work permit? Do you know the individual personally and does he need a permit or are you presuming 

[CrazyDave]

10 hours ago, Omobono said:

former  Eastern European soldier in a drunken state head buts coop manager after  being refused the purchase of alcohol  and has to be restrained , he  has a previous offence and court order , to be of good behaviour 

so why is his work permit not revoked,   ( thats if he is not in receipt of benefit )   and he is deported from the isle of Man  , this is what the work permit system was designed to prevent , yet every day we see people abusing the system , and appering before the courts , 

I just hope Tynwald members think long and hard about removing  any  parts  of the work permit system  or at the very least find out exactly what the legislation  sets out to do to protect this islands people   and Manx workers 

I don’t think you understand the work permit system to be honest.

[Omobono]

1 hour ago, CrazyDave said:

I don’t think you understand the work permit system to be honest.

You should read the isle of man government site ref revocation of a work permit ,  any criminal offence  can lead to a work permit being revoked , meaning if you cant  work  then , no place for you here , the legislation  was put in place to make sure people behaved  and not be criminals 

[Zarley]

This man is Ukrainian and served in their army in the eastern portion of the country. Perhaps he's here as part of the refugee scheme, at least initially. I don't think they were required to obtain work permits; anyone know?

He's very likely suffering from PTSD and possibly physical pain from past war injuries. Ukraine wasn't permitting healthy men to leave the country since February 2022, so he must no longer be able to carry out the duties of a soldier. (Why he may have been here as a refugee)

Alternatively, it is possible he's been here longer than the five year work permit stipulation. The war in eastern Ukraine (Donbas) has been going on since 2014.

None of it is any excuse for kicking off in co-op, but (self-medicating for PTSD) does add some context.

I hope he gets the mental health help and support he needs and continues to do well for himself. It seems he's currently on the right track. 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/ukrainian-soldier-avoids-prison-after-supermarket-spat/

Edited October 26, 2023 by Zarley
Extra bit to explain my thinking

[A fool and his money.....]

3 hours ago, Manxman1234 said:

I’m still confused by this, just because someone is Eastern European doesn’t mean they need a work permit? Do you know the individual personally and does he need a permit or are you presuming 

I guess he would need some kind of visa regardless of whether or not he needed a work permit. And I guess the logical next question is, why have a visa system if you can't remove people who behave badly.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that this fella should be removed, but it does make you wonder. They deported Someone for being homeless and begging not so long ago - is this any better? 

[A fool and his money.....]

2 minutes ago, Zarley said:

This man is Ukrainian and served in their army in the eastern portion of the country. Perhaps he's here as part of the refugee scheme, at least initially. I don't think they were required to obtain work permits; anyone know?

He's very likely suffering from PTSD and possibly physical pain from past war injuries. Ukraine wasn't permitting healthy men to leave the country since February 2022, so he must no longer be able to carry out the duties of a soldier.

Alternatively, it is possible he's been here longer than the five year work permit stipulation. The war in eastern Ukraine (Donbas) has been going on since 2014.

None of it is any excuse for kicking off in co-op, but (self-medicating for PTSD) does add some context.

I hope he gets the mental health help and support he needs and continues to do well for himself. It seems he's currently on the right track. 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/ukrainian-soldier-avoids-prison-after-supermarket-spat/

All good points. Lucky for him he's not Syrian.

[2112]

43 minutes ago, Zarley said:

This man is Ukrainian and served in their army in the eastern portion of the country. Perhaps he's here as part of the refugee scheme, at least initially. I don't think they were required to obtain work permits; anyone know?

He's very likely suffering from PTSD and possibly physical pain from past war injuries. Ukraine wasn't permitting healthy men to leave the country since February 2022, so he must no longer be able to carry out the duties of a soldier. (Why he may have been here as a refugee)

Alternatively, it is possible he's been here longer than the five year work permit stipulation. The war in eastern Ukraine (Donbas) has been going on since 2014.

None of it is any excuse for kicking off in co-op, but (self-medicating for PTSD) does add some context.

I hope he gets the mental health help and support he needs and continues to do well for himself. It seems he's currently on the right track. 

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/ukrainian-soldier-avoids-prison-after-supermarket-spat/

I agree to a certain extent, however, as an island, many residents who require urgent medical treatment either mental health treatment, doctors appointments, or a consultation at the hospital have to wait an eternity. Will being Ukrainian with issues, allow him to jump ahead for treatment?

 

[Yibble]

4 minutes ago, 2112 said:

I agree to a certain extent, however, as an island, many residents who require urgent medical treatment either mental health treatment, doctors appointments, or a consultation at the hospital have to wait an eternity. Will being Ukrainian with issues, allow him to jump ahead for treatment?

 

Instead of squabbling between ourselves (or with Ukrainians with issues) about queueing order for health care, perhaps the real target should be a government which grossly mismanages healthcare provision whilst presiding over ever-more-bloated public sector spending. Even worse, we have a government which aims to address the shortfall in public sector pension funding by growing the population, despite the lack of housing, healthcare and even water resouces to support that population growth.

[2112]

12 minutes ago, Yibble said:

Instead of squabbling between ourselves (or with Ukrainians with issues) about queueing order for health care, perhaps the real target should be a government which grossly mismanages healthcare provision whilst presiding over ever-more-bloated public sector spending. Even worse, we have a government which aims to address the shortfall in public sector pension funding by growing the population, despite the lack of housing, healthcare and even water resouces to support that population growth.

You make good points. However, any new resident who goes on to cause trouble, with the police, and gains a criminal record ( for a serious offence (s)) then perhaps provision for exclusion from the island is used. It is used on certain offenders who are either visitors or newly arrived residents here for employment purposes.