former soldier gets himself into trouble in the co op , with previous bad behaviour record

[Zarley]

13 minutes ago, 2112 said:

You make good points. However, any new resident who goes on to cause trouble, with the police, and gains a criminal record ( for a serious offence (s)) then perhaps provision for exclusion from the island is used. It is used on certain offenders who are either visitors or newly arrived residents here for employment purposes. 

It's not a case of such a person being automatically thrown out though is it. Maybe someone with a bit of compassion in their heart decides on these things, and rightly so.  

[thommo2010]

Just read the story on manx radio. Seems he was in court in January as well. Been busy since he's been on the Island 

[Banker]

2 hours ago, Omobono said:

You should read the isle of man government site ref revocation of a work permit ,  any criminal offence  can lead to a work permit being revoked , meaning if you cant  work  then , no place for you here , the legislation  was put in place to make sure people behaved  and not be criminals 

But if he’s been here for required time he may now have a Manx passport & not require a work permit, if you don’t know the circumstances you can’t really comment 

[Declan]

35 minutes ago, 2112 said:

You make good points. However, any new resident who goes on to cause trouble, with the police, and gains a criminal record ( for a serious offence (s)) then perhaps provision for exclusion from the island is used. It is used on certain offenders who are either visitors or newly arrived residents here for employment purposes. 

But the judge decides that based on the circumstances of the case. Someone with a home in the UK who kicks off while on holiday is clearly different to someone who's a refugee from a war, has a home, family and job here and is engaging with the health service here. It can't be a tickbox exercise, it needs to be a considered decision.

[WTF]

2 hours ago, Banker said:

 if you don’t know the circumstances you can’t really comment 

it never stops you.

[Passing Time]

9 hours ago, Omobono said:

You should read the isle of man government site ref revocation of a work permit ,  any criminal offence  can lead to a work permit being revoked , meaning if you cant  work  then , no place for you here , the legislation  was put in place to make sure people behaved  and not be criminals 

Are you sure that’s why legislation was put in place 

[Gladys]

20 minutes ago, Passing Time said:

Are you sure that’s why legislation was put in place 

Of course it wasn't.  IIRC, the work permit system was given a boost in the 70s to protect jobs in the dwindling tourist trade and ensure locals were employed rather than incoming seasonal workers.  Could be wrong, but that is my recollection. 

[Passing Time]

16 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Of course it wasn't.  IIRC, the work permit system was given a boost in the 70s to protect jobs in the dwindling tourist trade and ensure locals were employed rather than incoming seasonal workers.  Could be wrong, but that is my recollection. 

And mine…just pointing out the daftness of his comment 

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, Passing Time said:

And mine…just pointing out the daftness of his comment 

I know, was just trying to give some context to why we have work permits. 

[Roger Mexico]

35 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Of course it wasn't.  IIRC, the work permit system was given a boost in the 70s to protect jobs in the dwindling tourist trade and ensure locals were employed rather than incoming seasonal workers.  Could be wrong, but that is my recollection. 

Maybe back then, but seasonal tourism jobs have long been one of the categories effectively exempt from work permits.  I think they were still needed for some time (though they aren't now) but they would have normally been waived through and only those with serious criminal records would be refused.  They're just not the sort of job that most locals would want if year-round work is available.

Work permits have really been used to prevent the mass importation of workers from outside to undercut local wage rate, especially in fields such as construction.  I suspect they also help monitor other employment breaches such immigration violations and not paying minimum wage and the like.  It's easy to prove someone doesn't have a work permit and it means you can then investigate other matters.

[Fred the shred]

I don’t think there is any excuse for assaulting a man who was protecting his staff he also smashed the Covid screen and frightened the assistant.   People who work serving alcohol in the evening deserve better , or serving anything in fact but alcohol seems to have been the problem in this case.  The man who got assaulted and the assistant who had the protective shield smashed in front of her may have been affected, they must have been shook up, their feelings don’t seem to have been taken into consideration.    Not his first offence either, he should have been jailed and deported no question about that in my view.    This touchy,touchy, feely,feely approach will end in tears.   Sympathy, yes, but to the injured parties not this scumbag.

[Albert Tatlock]

I met this man just before this happened. Hyper, having just been in a war zone. This is an example of "a willingness to offer care, but not understand the consequences of the part-time care we offer". The 'politics of care'.

Get it right...don't play at it, and don't offer the care in the first place without following it through. Better to just donate the same funds to NGOs and GOs in the UK that know what they're doing...and can look after him in a much better way...and place him in better hands in the UK.

 

[Gladys]

58 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said:

I met this man just before this happened. Hyper, having just been in a war zone. This is an example of "a willingness to offer care, but not understand the consequences of the part-time care we offer". The 'politics of care'.

Get it right...don't play at it, and don't offer the care in the first place without following it through. Better to just donate the same funds to NGOs and GOs in the UK that know what they're doing...and can look after him in a much better way...and place him in better hands in the UK.

 

Spot on.  During the debate about taking in Syrian refugees, that was exactly my objection. 

[WTF]

9 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said:

I met this man just before this happened. Hyper, having just been in a war zone. This is an example of "a willingness to offer care, but not understand the consequences of the part-time care we offer". The 'politics of care'.

Get it right...don't play at it, and don't offer the care in the first place without following it through. Better to just donate the same funds to NGOs and GOs in the UK that know what they're doing...and can look after him in a much better way...and place him in better hands in the UK.

 

i'm all for shipping the problem to another jurisdiction too

[Fred the shred]

I am but have run out of reactions……I am not sure why reactions are limited or rationed.