Manx Radio and 3FM - listening figures

[The Voice of Reason]

22 hours ago, CrazyDave said:

These days you can listen to whatever you want, whenever you want without touching a radio.

You do it on your phone, tablet or computer or you ask your smart speaker.

Why would you have a broadcast schedule dictate what you listen to when you can literally listen to whatever you want whenever you want?

It’s the same as TV in 2023.  Nobody watches what is broadcast unless it is live sport or a major event.  You watch what you want when you want.

Well more so radio than tv ( but it still applies to tv)

Its linear. So whether you listen to Manx Radio, or say Radio Two you know the order things go in. 
In the case of Manx Radio you know that the music shows which all have their different flavour are going to be punctuated by say the Mannin Line. And I the case of Radio Two at 10. 30, Ten to the Top , or formerly Popmaster with Ken Bruce. It sort of gives structure to your day.

Yes you can just listen or watch just what you want to ( and I enjoy a wide range of podcasts).

 But if you tailor your listening or viewing solely to that which you think you want to to hear or watch, you are in danger of missing out on a whole load of stuff which may cause you appreciate a different point of view or just reaffirm your prejudices.

I scoffed at my wife watching Strictly ( not my sort of thing) but I did watch it. And whilst not exactly a convert I saw why it does provide a degree of entertainment 

[CrazyDave]

15 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Well more so radio than tv ( but it still applies to tv)

Its linear. So whether you listen to Manx Radio, or say Radio Two you know the order things go in. 
In the case of Manx Radio you know that the music shows which all have their different flavour are going to be punctuated by say the Mannin Line. And I the case of Radio Two at 10. 30, Ten to the Top , or formerly Popmaster with Ken Bruce. It sort of gives structure to your day.

Yes you can just listen or watch just what you want to ( and I enjoy a wide range of podcasts).

 But if you tailor your listening or viewing solely to that which you think you want to to hear or watch, you are in danger of missing out on a whole load of stuff which may cause you appreciate a different point of view or just reaffirm your prejudices.

I scoffed at my wife watching Strictly ( not my sort of thing) but I did watch it. And whilst not exactly a convert I saw why it does provide a degree of entertainment 

Spotify deals with this for you, both with music and podcasts.

It’s not an issue.  I am introduced to new stuff all the time.  Far more than I would be listening to the radio.

So do Netflix, Amazon and Sky for TV.

Edited October 30, 2023 by CrazyDave

[The Voice of Reason]

5 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

Spotify deals with this for you, both with music and podcasts.

It’s not an issue.  I am introduced to new stuff all the time.  Far more than I would be listening to the radio.

 

But have you listened to BBC Radio Six?

There you can be introduced to new stuff with a bit of background 

[CrazyDave]

4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

But have you listened to BBC Radio Six?

There you can be introduced to new stuff with a bit of background 

Yes.

I didn’t like it.  I prefer Spotify Alexa and Siri.

[IOM]

1 minute ago, CrazyDave said:

Yes.

I didn’t like it.  I prefer Spotify Alexa and Siri.

That’s fine and exactly your choice . Everyone wants something different just because you want it /like it don’t assume all people do . 

[CrazyDave]

Just now, IOM said:

That’s fine and exactly your choice . Everyone wants something different just because you want it /like it don’t assume all people do . 

I didn’t say they should? It was VOR who suggested I should have tried his preference.  I have never once said other people should try mine, just that that is my own preference 🤷‍♂️

[IOM]

20 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

I didn’t say they should? It was VOR who suggested I should have tried his preference.  I have never once said other people should try mine, just that that is my own preference 🤷‍♂️

You posted yesterday that nobody listens or watches linear TV so implied everyone is streaming like you do and if they don’t they are idiots ! You know exactly what you are doing with your posts so don’t shrug your shoulders. Don’t worry I have the measure of you and so do most other people ! 

[The Voice of Reason]

29 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

I didn’t say they should? It was VOR who suggested I should have tried his preference.  I have never once said other people should try mine, just that that is my own preference 🤷‍♂️

No I didn’t. I just asked if you’d tried something 

[CrazyDave]

6 minutes ago, IOM said:

You posted yesterday that nobody listens or watches linear TV so implied everyone is streaming like you do and if they don’t they are idiots ! You know exactly what you are doing with your posts so don’t shrug your shoulders. Don’t worry I have the measure of you and so do most other people ! 

WTF are you on about?

You sound a bit deranged, but anyway, enjoy your evening.

I can tell people I drove a fiesta and a lot of people drive fords.  You would have to be a proper looney to interpret that as me telling other people they should drive ford fiestas.

[IOM]

4 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

WTF are you on about?

You sound a bit deranged, but anyway, enjoy your evening.

I can tell people I drove a fiesta and a lot of people drive fords.  You would have to be a proper looney to interpret that as me telling other people they should drive ford fiestas.

Says the person who posted on here that those on these forums are all old people sat in front of their old laptops! And you were the one posting that nobody watches  linear TV🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.  You make far too many assumptions based on your own preferences and think anybody who does not share your opinion is lacking . 

[Parsley the Lion]

On 10/30/2023 at 3:25 PM, IOM said:

Sorry you keep going back to pandemic but the data does not support your argument. I am happy however to take your suggestion and look at the station over a longer time frame starting in 2004 . This data shows the reach was circa 47,000 then and today it’s 24,000. Hours per listener were 15 and today they are 10 and finally market share was 39% and now it’s circa 20% . Not great reading by any measure . Interestingly there was a drop over a ten year period on these metrics from 2004 ( presumably linked to 3FM starting ) but then Manx Radio grew and peaked again in 2015 so they clearly started to improve the output somehow. 
 

I think it’s become too fashionable for people to find excuses for underperforming metrics when in actual fact it’s often down to the fact that something is fundamentally wrong . I could myself justify some marginal changes in radio audience data due to the rise of digital etc but not a decline of the magnitude there is here . 

Yes the headline figures do show a downward trend however I think you will find that on a global scale for Public Srevice Broadcasting. One has to appreciete just how many media steams have become available since 2003. These are not just terestrial streams but global internet channels - news, music and information is everywhere however as I said in my initial thread its not all relevant to the Isle of Man and what is relevant is often just skimming the surface. Covid did have a dramatic positive effect on all PSB's and may not be as obvious for Manx Radio but it is there in the underlying trends for news as is 3FM's loss of aurdience. There are two key types of radio one that you actually have to listen to  - speach radio and one that which you simply hear like 3FM in the hairdressers / background etc (that is probably being overly harsh on 3FM but I am trying to make the distinction). Not to devalue either as they both serve a purpose. The fact of the matter is that social media has damaged PSB channels greatly in the last few years as people have become 'public reporters' and stories spread like wildfire on a global scale. The BBC has recently launched its 'BBC Verify service' in order to set itself apart from the myriad of other news channels. The single most important thing for a PSB to be is trusted, and it costs a lot of money to sort out the wheat from the chaff and hold back from be sensationalist. A few years back Manx Radio were critisised for the time they took to announce the crash of Guy Martin at the TT. Pictures were all over the world in a few minutes of the fireball at Ballagarey with social media commentators saying he was dead. How do you think his family felt? A PSB has to be right on the money and truth and honesty should be at it's core values. It has taken a few PSB's a few years to get their act together in this respect as eveyone wants to be first with the news. The fact is PSB has had to learn all over again that its value in society is to deliver the truth - if the listener is more interested in getting the incorrect or sensationaised story first to re tweet etc then that's up to them.

I am a great fan of metrics and during my carrear I had a measurement for anything that could be measured. Metrics show you trends and if you know how to analyse them then you can extrapolate them to see what the final scenario might be and plan for it. A few years ago a lot of radio stations could see what was happening from within the Rajar Data but it was all happening so fast that they simply didn't know what to do about it. I know of station that didn't engage with social media for years as their programme controllers simply could not be convinced that SM was part of a broadcast platform as an interactive platform for listeners and the presenters just couldn't deal with all the incoming messages. Issues is like this loose stations listeners as they think they are being ignored and hence go off to listen to something else. 

For a PSB to be heard above the background noise in todays crowded media space they need to be relevant, truthful and have a top notch plan for the future which anticipates trends and how listeners will interect with the brand in 5 - 10 years from now. Manx Radio has missed the boat on DAB, which ironically is no bad thing as everything is gravitating to the Internet. Want DAB at home - simply plumb your TV ito your home Hi Fi and choose your station from the EPG on the TV. Pretty much any station in the world can be found on line and it's all digital. 

The 'decline' of Manx Radio as shown in the top line of Rajar data looks alarming and yes I have no doubt that some of it is down to complacency, however the data needs to be looked at in conjunction with what has happened in the last 20 years in other areas of social interaction. PSB is by no means dead but it does need a reboot which is exactly what is happening at the BBC. Look at what BBC radio sounded like even 12 months ago and its a very different beast now. It has new heads of pretty much all the Radio stations who are in tune with the audience they want to serve. Some like Helen Thomas at Radio 2 are being exceptionally brave and winning! It's just that sort of thinking we need at the local radio level so that audiences are not taken for granted. The definition of insanity - doing things the same way and expecting different results.....one can argue about the past performance of a station until the cows come home (and metrics can show what was wrong at the time) but the real debate needs to be is what does the Island want / need from its National broadcaster going forward, do we have the right people to deliver it and how will it be funded? By the way the reason MR started to attract listeners again in in the time frame around 2015 was from the efforts of one of the best Programme Controllers in the business and it took him from 2009 when he first started at the station to achieve it. It takes a lot of effort and a considerable amount of time and talent to win back radio audiences.....................

[IOM]

1 hour ago, Parsley the Lion said:

Yes the headline figures do show a downward trend however I think you will find that on a global scale for Public Srevice Broadcasting. One has to appreciete just how many media steams have become available since 2003. These are not just terestrial streams but global internet channels - news, music and information is everywhere however as I said in my initial thread its not all relevant to the Isle of Man and what is relevant is often just skimming the surface. Covid did have a dramatic positive effect on all PSB's and may not be as obvious for Manx Radio but it is there in the underlying trends for news as is 3FM's loss of aurdience. There are two key types of radio one that you actually have to listen to  - speach radio and one that which you simply hear like 3FM in the hairdressers / background etc (that is probably being overly harsh on 3FM but I am trying to make the distinction). Not to devalue either as they both serve a purpose. The fact of the matter is that social media has damaged PSB channels greatly in the last few years as people have become 'public reporters' and stories spread like wildfire on a global scale. The BBC has recently launched its 'BBC Verify service' in order to set itself apart from the myriad of other news channels. The single most important thing for a PSB to be is trusted, and it costs a lot of money to sort out the wheat from the chaff and hold back from be sensationalist. A few years back Manx Radio were critisised for the time they took to announce the crash of Guy Martin at the TT. Pictures were all over the world in a few minutes of the fireball at Ballagarey with social media commentators saying he was dead. How do you think his family felt? A PSB has to be right on the money and truth and honesty should be at it's core values. It has taken a few PSB's a few years to get their act together in this respect as eveyone wants to be first with the news. The fact is PSB has had to learn all over again that its value in society is to deliver the truth - if the listener is more interested in getting the incorrect or sensationaised story first to re tweet etc then that's up to them.

I am a great fan of metrics and during my carrear I had a measurement for anything that could be measured. Metrics show you trends and if you know how to analyse them then you can extrapolate them to see what the final scenario might be and plan for it. A few years ago a lot of radio stations could see what was happening from within the Rajar Data but it was all happening so fast that they simply didn't know what to do about it. I know of station that didn't engage with social media for years as their programme controllers simply could not be convinced that SM was part of a broadcast platform as an interactive platform for listeners and the presenters just couldn't deal with all the incoming messages. Issues is like this loose stations listeners as they think they are being ignored and hence go off to listen to something else. 

For a PSB to be heard above the background noise in todays crowded media space they need to be relevant, truthful and have a top notch plan for the future which anticipates trends and how listeners will interect with the brand in 5 - 10 years from now. Manx Radio has missed the boat on DAB, which ironically is no bad thing as everything is gravitating to the Internet. Want DAB at home - simply plumb your TV ito your home Hi Fi and choose your station from the EPG on the TV. Pretty much any station in the world can be found on line and it's all digital. 

The 'decline' of Manx Radio as shown in the top line of Rajar data looks alarming and yes I have no doubt that some of it is down to complacency, however the data needs to be looked at in conjunction with what has happened in the last 20 years in other areas of social interaction. PSB is by no means dead but it does need a reboot which is exactly what is happening at the BBC. Look at what BBC radio sounded like even 12 months ago and its a very different beast now. It has new heads of pretty much all the Radio stations who are in tune with the audience they want to serve. Some like Helen Thomas at Radio 2 are being exceptionally brave and winning! It's just that sort of thinking we need at the local radio level so that audiences are not taken for granted. The definition of insanity - doing things the same way and expecting different results.....one can argue about the past performance of a station until the cows come home (and metrics can show what was wrong at the time) but the real debate needs to be is what does the Island want / need from its National broadcaster going forward, do we have the right people to deliver it and how will it be funded? By the way the reason MR started to attract listeners again in in the time frame around 2015 was from the efforts of one of the best Programme Controllers in the business and it took him from 2009 when he first started at the station to achieve it. It takes a lot of effort and a considerable amount of time and talent to win back radio audiences.....................

I agree with a lot of this and especially about the role of a PSB . And yes if you make brave choices you can win Helen Thomas as Radio 2 is a great example of exactly that. But if you make a brave choice and it does not work don’t be afraid to say so and course correct quickly . I think this is where the problem lies at Manx Radio they made some choices in 2015/2016 I think one was the introduction of the Women Today show at 2pm . Definitely a brave choice I don’t have the specific detail but wonder if that lost them listeners and the two replacement programmes “Late Lunch “ and “ 1 to 3 “ have not cut through . They also used to a brilliant Double Gold segment at 10am in the morning again I may be wrong but I wonder if that was popular. Also the loss of Mandate and the movement of Chris Williams ( a good presenter in my view ) to a time when not many people are listening . I may be wrong but on the surface potentially poor decisions. 
 

As you say it’s not easy to programme a radio station and yes Marc Tyley is a very experienced programmer I think it’s him you are referring to , Manx Radio where lucky to have him in that role .
 

In summary and on balance it’s clear something is not right and therefore action should be taken to sort it out . Maintain its PSB status but get it back to the success of 2014/2015. That’s my view anyway. 

[genericUserName]

On 10/30/2023 at 8:39 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

Well more so radio than tv ( but it still applies to tv)

Its linear. So whether you listen to Manx Radio, or say Radio Two you know the order things go in. 
In the case of Manx Radio you know that the music shows which all have their different flavour are going to be punctuated by say the Mannin Line. And I the case of Radio Two at 10. 30, Ten to the Top , or formerly Popmaster with Ken Bruce. It sort of gives structure to your day.

Yes you can just listen or watch just what you want to ( and I enjoy a wide range of podcasts).

 But if you tailor your listening or viewing solely to that which you think you want to to hear or watch, you are in danger of missing out on a whole load of stuff which may cause you appreciate a different point of view or just reaffirm your prejudices.

I scoffed at my wife watching Strictly ( not my sort of thing) but I did watch it. And whilst not exactly a convert I saw why it does provide a degree of entertainment 

Have you got a job?

[The Voice of Reason]

10 hours ago, genericUserName said:

Have you got a job?

No 

[Gagster]

On 10/26/2023 at 10:10 PM, Gagster said:

The latest RAJAR listening results were published today. Some observations for Manx Radio v 3FM make interesting reading.

https://www.rajar.co.uk/listening/quarterly_listening.php

Looking at the last three quarters… Manx Radio continues with a downward trend, while 3FM enjoys an upward trend. However, what jumps out the most is that the stations are getting closer to being equal, or even 3FM ending up with a larger audience:

 

MANX RADIO

March 2023 - 30,000

June 2023 - 28,000

Sept 2023 - 26,000

 

3FM 

March 2023 - 22,000

June 2023 - 23,000

Sept 2023 - 24,000

 

The question is of course, and you knew 20 seconds ago that I would ask: can the increasing subvention be justified if listenership is decreasing. 

For the year 2021/22, this subvention was £1,078,722, an increase from the previous year's total of £995,000 (an 8.4% increase).

In 2015/16, the subvention was £875,000. In June 2015, RAJAR reported Manx Radio’s listening audience was 47,000.

With a decreasing audience, commercial revenues will take a dip as airtime will not be as valuable as perhaps in times past. Will this trigger requests for even further increases in subvention levels in order to compensate for decreased revenue? Does government even take the listening figures into consideration?

How can the Manx Radio business model work - with public funding increasing, while listening audience is decreasing? And with 3FM seemingly showing them up!

We’re aware of the pitfalls of the RAJAR process, however this is the industry standard and Manx Radio offer no other alternatives - and were happy with it in the good old days when their audience was something to be proud of.

Well, well, well. The downward trend continues for Manx Radio. But there’s more:

MANX RADIO

March 2023 - 30,000

June 2023 - 28,000

Sept 2023 - 26,000

Dec 2023 - 25,000

 

3FM 

March 2023 - 22,000

June 2023 - 23,000

Sept 2023 - 24,000

Dec 2023 - 25,000

 

The latest audience figures, released today, show Manx Radio down by 1000 and 3FM up by 1000. So, for the first time ever, these stations are neck and neck with audience. It doesn’t mean 1000 people have switched from Manx to 3FM, they could have retuned to anything.

But overall, these are appalling results for Manx Radio. If the trend continues, with Manx Radio audience dropping a bit and 3FM increasing a bit, the survey results in 3 months time could make very interesting reading.