Chris Thomas and the sea services agreement

[Gladys]

18 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

But as Chris Thomas pointed out in a question to Cannan in this week's Keys:

https://www.tynwald.org.im/playaudio?file=/business/listen/AgainFiles/O-202301-1004a.mp3

According to the FoI Act, the Steam Packet is included in the organisations that FoI covers because the Government owns a majority of the shares.

It's worth listening to the clip above - we'll be waiting weeks for the Hansard anyway - to hear the sulky little boy tones of Cannan complaining that someone has asked him a difficult question when he has to do anything but read the vague generalities off the piece of paper in front of him.  I think he's even worse at thinking on his feet than Quayle was.  It also shows the incompetence of those briefing him that they didn't realise what Thomas's obvious follow-up question would be.

Except the SPCO could probably apply a qualified exemption in respect of commercial information, which could well cover a substantial amount of likely FOIs. 

[Roger Mexico]

11 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Except the SPCO could probably apply a qualified exemption in respect of commercial information, which could well cover a substantial amount of likely FOIs. 

Yes, just think how valuable it would be to all the other ferry companies serving the Isle of Man.  (Won't stop them trying mind).

[Happier diner]

15 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Except the SPCO could probably apply a qualified exemption in respect of commercial information, which could well cover a substantial amount of likely FOIs. 

I think you have to request exemption and you will be turned down if it doesn't qualify.

[Gladys]

24 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

I think you have to request exemption and you will be turned down if it doesn't qualify.

Not sure, I think from the Act, the decision to apply the qualified exemption can be referred to the IC.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Gladys

[Gladys]

28 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

Yes, just think how valuable it would be to all the other ferry companies serving the Isle of Man.  (Won't stop them trying mind).

There are many other commercially sensitive issues outside of potential competitors. 

[Happier diner]

43 minutes ago, Gladys said:

There are many other commercially sensitive issues outside of potential competitors. 

44 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Not sure, I think from the Act, the decision to apply the qualified exemption can be referred to the IC.

 

Yes I think that's how it works. Any information that you fail to disclose for any reasons is subject to challenge and you get a hand slap if you interpret things wrongly. 

The FOI system is a PIA. I reckon Alf just can't be bothered expanding it.

What a lot of people don't get is that, whilst having access to information that it's in the public interest to know about is important, it's a massive administrative process. Lots of new jobs in government and the stat boards.

Who pays for it all  in the end? We do. 

[Moghrey Mie]

7 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Apparently Alf doesn't think it's appropriate for the Steam Packet to have to follow FOI rules at this time, but does think this should be reviewed in the future.

I wonder what they're trying to hide?

More likely that they just haven't got round to adding it to the list of publicly owned companies such as Laxey Flour Mill and Manx Radio.

You could even ask questions about Isle of Man Film Limited and IOM Film (DOI) Ltd as they are listed.

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

3 hours ago, Happier diner said:

What a lot of people don't get is that, whilst having access to information that it's in the public interest to know about is important, it's a massive administrative process.

No making sure that you don’t give people what they’re asking for is a massive administrative process. If you just gave them what they asked for it would be a relatively simple process. 

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, Happier diner said:

What a lot of people don't get is that, whilst having access to information that it's in the public interest to know about is important, it's a massive administrative process. Lots of new jobs in government and the stat boards.

Actually it isn't - or shouldn't be.  If people are asking reasonable questions (and unreasonable ones can be turned down easily in existing legislation) then the answers should be readily available to Departments.  And if they're not, then it suggests that Department doesn't know what it is doing and is uninterested in finding out.

If it's a "massive administrative process" that's only because they choose to make it so.  There will be a bit of extra admin but I think Chris Thomas said they only had one person who dealt with it at the DoI - one of the larger and more complex Departments.  If there's a lot of time and effort involved it's in avoiding answering the questions - and there's an easy solution to that.  Don't.  As for other FoI admin, the Information Commissioner's office covers a whole range of legally necessary topics and again FoI shouldn't trouble it much unless organisations are being deliberately uncooperative.

[Mercenary]

3 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Actually it isn't - or shouldn't be.  If people are asking reasonable questions (and unreasonable ones can be turned down easily in existing legislation) then the answers should be readily available to Departments.  And if they're not, then it suggests that Department doesn't know what it is doing and is uninterested in finding out.

If it's a "massive administrative process" that's only because they choose to make it so.  There will be a bit of extra admin but I think Chris Thomas said they only had one person who dealt with it at the DoI - one of the larger and more complex Departments.  If there's a lot of time and effort involved it's in avoiding answering the questions - and there's an easy solution to that.  Don't.  As for other FoI admin, the Information Commissioner's office covers a whole range of legally necessary topics and again FoI shouldn't trouble it much unless organisations are being deliberately uncooperative.

"I request Roger Mexico lists all ManxForums posts where s(he) has mentioned Isle of Man Government or statutory boards"

 

You only have to scroll the FOI page to see there's a big wide wedge between 'unreasonable' and 'readily available'. Never mind it's on old IT systems individuals have little control over.

[Roger Mexico]

1 hour ago, Mercenary said:

"I request Roger Mexico lists all ManxForums posts where s(he) has mentioned Isle of Man Government or statutory boards"

You only have to scroll the FOI page to see there's a big wide wedge between 'unreasonable' and 'readily available'. Never mind it's on old IT systems individuals have little control over.

Ironically the reason that would be turned down wouldn't be because it was too difficult, but because you could do it yourself and it would be easy.  Go the Manx Forums Search Page enter the word(s) or phrase you want to search for; click on Search by Author and then enter "Roger Mexico" or whomever.  You'll even be given a list of possible members as you start to type that, to click on the one you want.

Now you'd obviously need to know what the list of words or phrases was, but that often has to be specified in an FoI (or Subject Access Request or whatever).  If the list is too long or inclusive or invades other privacy, the request can be turned down.  Those answering such requests are expected to keep a record of what searches they made and these have to be shown to reasonable.  But it's a fairly simple and standardised process and those handling such requests should be trained to do so.  In practice they will will making similar searches as part of their normal job anyway.

[Happier diner]

10 hours ago, Mercenary said:

"I request Roger Mexico lists all ManxForums posts where s(he) has mentioned Isle of Man Government or statutory boards"

 

You only have to scroll the FOI page to see there's a big wide wedge between 'unreasonable' and 'readily available'. Never mind it's on old IT systems individuals have little control over.

Any FOI has to be reasonable and be information that is available. How difficult it is to get it is not a factor.

Its has to be information though, not something that is calculated or derived from something else.

e.g  if you asked how many and of what value a certain grade of staff had had over the period then that would require analysis of information and therefore they would be under no obligation to provide it.

[yujikos]

On 10/27/2023 at 1:18 PM, joebean said:

Maybe Manx Radio have it in for Chris Thomas with the way they edit his interviews but, once again, I finish the interview and am none the wiser what he is asking for, or why. He is the master of putting words together that mean nothing. It’s like reading an undergraduates essay in social sciences where things are discussed at length, without any conclusion being reached.
I think he wants Tynwald to reset the agreement to interfere with Steam Packet’s judgement about what vessels they need in the next few years. Or maybe it’s to allow the Company to use their judgement. Or maybe to engage in some kind of consultation with some people before resetting the agreement in Tynwald for reasons unspecified. Interviews with politicians like this just fill up the space for news without bringing any news. A shorter news slot and a couple of decent tunes would be better.  Exploring sex and porn videos in life is a journey of self-discovery and connection. It's about understanding desires, boundaries, and embracing the beauty of intimacy. Through open communication, trust, and mutual respect, we navigate this terrain with curiosity and authenticity. Every experience, whether joyful or challenging, contributes to our growth and understanding. It's important to prioritize consent, empathy, and exploration in our intimate relationships. By approaching sex with openness and vulnerability, we create meaningful connections and deepen our understanding of ourselves and others. Let's continue to explore and embrace the richness of our sexual experiences, fostering love, respect, and fulfillment in our lives.

 

I agree with you that Chris Thomas is very vague and unclear in his interviews. He seems to have no clear vision or plan for the future of the Steam Packet Company, which is a vital service for the Isle of Man. He just talks in circles and avoids answering any direct questions. He is wasting our time and money by proposing to review the Sea Services Agreement and the Shareholder Status of the Treasury, which are already in place and working well. ¹ He should focus on more pressing issues, such as climate change, affordable housing, and the population decline. ² Manx Radio should stop giving him so much airtime and play some more music instead. He is not a leader, he is a waffler.

 

Edited February 17 by yujikos

[Fred the shred]

He talks shite whatever he is gobbling off about all huff and puff without any substance.

[Roger Mexico]

47 minutes ago, yujikos said:

I agree with you that Chris Thomas is very vague and unclear in his interviews. He seems to have no clear vision or plan for the future of the Steam Packet Company, which is a vital service for the Isle of Man. He just talks in circles and avoids answering any direct questions. He is wasting our time and money by proposing to review the Sea Services Agreement and the Shareholder Status of the Treasury, which are already in place and working well. ¹ He should focus on more pressing issues, such as climate change, affordable housing, and the population decline. ² Manx Radio should stop giving him so much airtime and play some more music instead. He is not a leader, he is a waffler.

It's always useful when anyone comes on here proclaiming "There's nothing to see here" and that everything is working perfectly and no one must be allowed to question it.  Clearly someone has been rattled and there's more to come out.  As the first post from a new account it may be even more indicative of corporate uneasiness.

The really interesting thing here is the superscripts though.  They suggest this has been (at least partly) copied from another document with footnotes.  Are similar comments appearing elsewhere?

And yes, Chris Thomas can waffle at times or go off on multiple digressions.  But by definition wanting to review the Agreement and the control of the Steam Packet is about having a vision for it and wanting to plan, whether you agree with change or not.