Tynwald members get pay rise

[CrazyDave]

Rob Callister is currently on manninline chatting to that Juan bloke.

I think he has just single handily justified what they all earn in a year by not telling the bloke to F off.

[woolley]

43 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

No they won and got six months basic salary and the pension.  The only thing they 'lost' on was an appeal against the amount, where they had been either so dishonest or so detached from reality that they tried to claim their salary was the higher amount was what they would have been paid under the new scheme that started after they had been chucked out by the electorate.  Unfortunately the Government lawyers were too dumb to point out they asked the wrong figure and the tribunal accepted it.  When the amount was appealed, Boot and Perkins climbed down claiming they were being persecuted.

They lost the election is the salient point. The conversation we were having was whether it was more advantageous financially to stand and lose than to simply stand down.

[Roger Mexico]

26 minutes ago, woolley said:

They lost the election is the salient point. The conversation we were having was whether it was more advantageous financially to stand and lose than to simply stand down.

Oh it certainly was more financially advantageous to stand.  Effectively you got 6 months pay as a sort of redundancy payment, irrespective of how long you'd been in Tynwald (providing it was more than two years).  Not something that is normally available to those on a fixed term contract.  If you don't stand you get nothing in the same way someone who resigns doesn't.

The scheme had been modified so anyone who was over a certain age didn't qualify because of Singer taking the piss, standing in 2016 when he was 73 and everyone knew he wouldn't be re-elected.  I was correcting your statement "They didn't get the loser's payout because they were deemed too old".   That's what Tynwald tried to do, but it was ruled illegal under age discrimination.  I suspect the legislation was simply badly drafted and correcting it would be possibly, but as usual no mistake can ever be admitted and so they amended it to allow elderly rejects to claim even though they were also getting a Tynwald pension.  They did reduce the payout to four months basic though.

[Declan]

Does the pension start paying out when they leave office or when parachute payments end?

[Banker]

20 minutes ago, Declan said:

Does the pension start paying out when they leave office or when parachute payments end?

Not sure but assume it’s age dependent, normally over 55 for most except jobs like police, firefighters etc 

[Andy Onchan]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:47 PM, Stu Peters said:

There are dozens of reasons traditional postal services here and elsewhere are in trouble, shrinking volumes, increased competition, gig economy, significant issues with RM, decline in traditional operations as everyone goes digital, supporting an unsustainable retail network to placate the electorate and their MHKs, the desire to continue to offer decent employment terms…

Yet all you see are ‘too many highly paid managers’, which is the MF default position on everything. Feel free to bring in a management consultant who will agree and I’ll listen. I strongly suggest you won’t find one.

Why doesn't IOMP employ anyone/anyone with freight and/or logistics experience in your management structure so that it can compete for the courier/parcel economy and which should have happened +15 years ago?

Edited November 6, 2023 by Andy Onchan

[Stu Peters]

19 minutes ago, Andy Onchan said:

Why doesn't IOMP employ anyone/anyone with freight and/or logistics experience in your management structure so that it can compete for the courier/parcel economy and which should have happened +15 years ago?

Not that I want or intend to discuss IOMPO business here, but part of the reason is that we’re competing against low cost (i.e. gig economy) parcel operators and don’t see a race to the bottom to be good for anyone. And we thought we had a good and solid bilateral agreement with RM/PF. One of the reasons for our reduced profit last year was the ongoing action by RM workers. I’m confident that the Board and Executive will resolve many of the current challenges, to the benefit of our customers and staff. I’ll recuse myself from further comment for fear of saying something I might later rely on in (Tynwald) court…

[Andy Onchan]

1 minute ago, Stu Peters said:

Not that I want or intend to discuss IOMPO business here, but part of the reason is that we’re competing against low cost (i.e. gig economy) parcel operators and don’t see a race to the bottom to be good for anyone. And we thought we had a good and solid bilateral agreement with RM/PF. One of the reasons for our reduced profit last year was the ongoing action by RM workers. I’m confident that the Board and Executive will resolve many of the current challenges, to the benefit of our customers and staff. I’ll recuse myself from further comment for fear of saying something I might later rely on in (Tynwald) court…

The gig economy ain't going to go away. So you might as well join it. What other options are there with a diminishing retail/letter market? You have the assets, both vehicles and personnel; it should be a no brainer. But as I said earlier, despite previously having three development managers, IOMP is late to the party. 

[woolley]

2 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

I was correcting your statement "They didn't get the loser's payout because they were deemed too old".   That's what Tynwald tried to do, but it was ruled illegal under age discrimination.  

My statement was correct, as confirmed by the first clause of your next sentence "That's what Tynwald tried to do." Not only did they try to do it, they did it. Only later did they backpedal, awarding the two losing members a reduced payout as I posted originally.

[A fool and his money.....]

1 hour ago, Stu Peters said:

Not that I want or intend to discuss IOMPO business here, but part of the reason is that we’re competing against low cost (i.e. gig economy) parcel operators and don’t see a race to the bottom to be good for anyone. And we thought we had a good and solid bilateral agreement with RM/PF. One of the reasons for our reduced profit last year was the ongoing action by RM workers. I’m confident that the Board and Executive will resolve many of the current challenges, to the benefit of our customers and staff. I’ll recuse myself from further comment for fear of saying something I might later rely on in (Tynwald) court…

Is the gig economy a thing in parcels on the IOM? I know a couple of people who drive vans, one for Manx Indy, one for DHL, I'm pretty sure they're both properly employed, admittedly they my be fairly poorly paid, but I don't think it's correct to say they're gig economy.

I do think it's to be applauded though, a government concern standing by looking after its workers well despite what others are doing. The same didn't happen with the buses which now has lots of gig drivers (with predictable results for the quality of ser), and it looks like the steam Racket are about to follow them - although to be fair I think the PO did treat workers quite poorly when Julie Edge was in charge.

[Banker]

1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Is the gig economy a thing in parcels on the IOM? I know a couple of people who drive vans, one for Manx Indy, one for DHL, I'm pretty sure they're both properly employed, admittedly they my be fairly poorly paid, but I don't think it's correct to say they're gig economy.

I do think it's to be applauded though, a government concern standing by looking after its workers well despite what others are doing. The same didn't happen with the buses which now has lots of gig drivers (with predictable results for the quality of ser), and it looks like the steam Racket are about to follow them - although to be fair I think the PO did treat workers quite poorly when Julie Edge was in charge.

Evri formerly Hermes are biggest gig one in parcels, pay per parcel, no sick pay,pension holidays or minimum wage etc.

Assume if post office wanted to compete it could but only by sacking all staff & employing on zero hours contract & renting them a vehicle etc. Don’t think that would be acceptable to government, unions, staff or general public except those who want everything done as cheap as possible & sod the consequences for everyone else!!

[Non-Believer]

2 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Is the gig economy a thing in parcels on the IOM? I know a couple of people who drive vans, one for Manx Indy, one for DHL, I'm pretty sure they're both properly employed, admittedly they my be fairly poorly paid, but I don't think it's correct to say they're gig economy.

I do think it's to be applauded though, a government concern standing by looking after its workers well despite what others are doing. The same didn't happen with the buses which now has lots of gig drivers (with predictable results for the quality of ser), and it looks like the steam Racket are about to follow them - although to be fair I think the PO did treat workers quite poorly when Julie Edge was in charge.

MIC are now recruiting delivery drivers on the back of taking on the Parcelforce work, offering £28.6k pa plus overtime and benefits, I've posted a shot of their ad previously.

[Mercenary]

5 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

Why doesn't IOMP employ anyone/anyone with freight and/or logistics experience in your management structure so that it can compete for the courier/parcel economy and which should have happened +15 years ago?

Do we really want IOMG spending hundreds of thousands trying to outcompete local businesses in yet another sector ?

[A fool and his money.....]

1 hour ago, Banker said:

Evri formerly Hermes are biggest gig one in parcels, pay per parcel, no sick pay,pension holidays or minimum wage etc.

Assume if post office wanted to compete it could but only by sacking all staff & employing on zero hours contract & renting them a vehicle etc. Don’t think that would be acceptable to government, unions, staff or general public except those who want everything done as cheap as possible & sod the consequences for everyone else!!

Yes, I'll give you that one, I'd forgotten about them. But that's one company who don't have a particularly big presence on the island. The rest seem fairly respectable.

[Andy Onchan]

29 minutes ago, Mercenary said:

Do we really want IOMG spending hundreds of thousands trying to outcompete local businesses in yet another sector ?

It doesn't need to spend any money. They already have the operational assets to make it happen. They won't outcompete anyone, there are still gaps in the market.