Cueey Lewis And The News Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Gladys said: And what does intersex mean? That the individual has to accept the gender assigned even if they feel another? Interestingly enough a long time ago a book called a dictionary was invented. By reference to this book you can find out what words mean. Therefore by simply consulting with a dictionary you can see that intersex means: noting or relating to a person, animal, or plant having reproductive organs, genitals, hormones, or chromosomal patterns that do not fall under typical definitions of male and female https://www.dictionary.com/browse/intersex It’s a biological term that has absolutely nothing to do with what gender anyone chooses to identify as. Edited November 21, 2023 by Cueey Lewis And The News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 Many cultures have had a third gender for millenia. Of course we're very important and Western so our culture must be both more important and more correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 31 minutes ago, La_Dolce_Vita said: Mainstream? I hope not! If that's the impression we are giving then that's a depressing thing to hear. Flounce harder? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said: Interestingly enough a long time ago a book called a dictionary was invented. By reference to this book you can find out what words mean. Therefore by simply consulting with a dictionary you can see that intersex means: noting or relating to a person, animal, or plant having reproductive organs, genitals, hormones, or chromosomal patterns that do not fall under typical definitions of male and female https://www.dictionary.com/browse/intersex It’s a biological term that has absolutely nothing to do with what gender anyone chooses to identify as. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/ I prefer a medical explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, HeliX said: But they're ignoring the SCIENCE of biology! Just to be different! How are gays ignoring the SCIENCE of biology.? It’s a curious thing to say. They are men and women who happen to have a preference for those of their own sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: How are gays ignoring the SCIENCE of biology.? It’s a curious thing to say. They are men and women who happen to have a preference for those of their own sex. Can't be, biology dictates that if you're born with a penis you're attracted to women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cueey Lewis And The News Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 53 minutes ago, HeliX said: Many cultures have had a third gender for millenia. Of course we're very important and Western so our culture must be both more important and more correct. I didn’t make any reference to third gender. The third gender argument is the normally acceptable argument that most people seem to generally have complete acceptance of. But the aggressive militancy that seems to make most people unsympathetic to the wider cause is the whole trans women are women argument and you’ll get shouted down and de-platformed if you don’t agree with an argument that is clearly counter to basic biological science. What many of the trans militants seem to want is to not accept that a third way or third sex is a perfectly acceptable and respectful way of dealing with people in society by acknowledging their wish to present as whatever they wish to present as. But they clearly are not a biological member of the sex they might identify and that is a scientific fact. Edited November 21, 2023 by Cueey Lewis And The News Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said: I didn’t make any reference to third gender. The third gender argument is the normally acceptable argument that most people seem to generally have complete acceptance of. But the aggressive militancy that seems to make most people unsympathetic to the wider cause is the whole trans women are women argument and you’ll get shouted down and de-platformed if you don’t agree with an argument that is clearly counter to basic biological basic science. I think the "trans women are women" argument is stupid because it's a question of semantics and nothing more. It's a pointless timewaste that does everyone involved a disservice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cueey Lewis And The News Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: I think the "trans women are women" argument is stupid because it's a question of semantics and nothing more. It's a pointless timewaste that does everyone involved a disservice. I totally agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chie Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 3 hours ago, The Phantom said: Ok fair enough, but is a 'vigil' actually what you want, think will change anything or really provide some sort of solace or support? It's like when someone really can't be arsed, but wants to be seen to be doing/saying something - so they offer their 'Hopes and Prayers'. If the violence and anti-trans rhetoric is as you say, do you not feel a public vigil would be goading and a potential target? Would it not be better held (and warmer and drier) and more productive if held in a Church Hall or Community Centre? The aim of the vigil itself isn't to change anything per se. Similar to the various other days of remembrance, it’s about remembering those who have gone before you, what it is you are fighting for and how much left there is to do to bring about the change that’s needed. We actually do do a lot behind the scenes the rest of the year when it comes to talking to officials, meeting with MHKs and various government departments. And trying to improve the situation here on the island. We are fortunate that here on the island the situation isn't as bad as on the mainland and we do have local and government officials who are willing to listen and work with us. It is just slow going. For example, i’m trying to work on improving the islands concept of gender recognition. Others are working with MHKs on hate crime legislation. Others are working towards improving the state of healthcare on the island. There is a lot that we do behind the scenes. And this leads back to the statement i made earlier of people actually engaging with us and finding out who we actually are and what we actually do, rather than what they have been lead to believe. I have said it time and time again, i am more than happy to meet anyone for coffee who would like to know more about the trans community, ask questions, alleviate fears etc etc. And that offer still stands. Just like i did with @Stu Peters a couple of years back and that went a lot better than i expected it to. As for holding the vigil in a community centre rather than in public. I guess the answer to that is, why should we? We have as much right to use that space as any other person. Why should we have to hide away? Yes, there is risk associated with it and yes we do risk painting a target on our back. But should we have to cower in fear because of it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Chie said: The aim of the vigil itself isn't to change anything per se. Similar to the various other days of remembrance, it’s about remembering those who have gone before you, what it is you are fighting for and how much left there is to do to bring about the change that’s needed. We actually do do a lot behind the scenes the rest of the year when it comes to talking to officials, meeting with MHKs and various government departments. And trying to improve the situation here on the island. We are fortunate that here on the island the situation isn't as bad as on the mainland and we do have local and government officials who are willing to listen and work with us. It is just slow going. For example, i’m trying to work on improving the islands concept of gender recognition. Others are working with MHKs on hate crime legislation. Others are working towards improving the state of healthcare on the island. There is a lot that we do behind the scenes. And this leads back to the statement i made earlier of people actually engaging with us and finding out who we actually are and what we actually do, rather than what they have been lead to believe. I have said it time and time again, i am more than happy to meet anyone for coffee who would like to know more about the trans community, ask questions, alleviate fears etc etc. And that offer still stands. Just like i did with @Stu Peters a couple of years back and that went a lot better than i expected it to. As for holding the vigil in a community centre rather than in public. I guess the answer to that is, why should we? We have as much right to use that space as any other person. Why should we have to hide away? Yes, there is risk associated with it and yes we do risk painting a target on our back. But should we have to cower in fear because of it? Anything with Govt is slow going and frustrating and honestly I'm not really suggesting hide. If something you think is going to be inflamitaory (if you really do?), then why push it. Plus it's nightime in November! 34 minutes ago, HeliX said: Can't be, biology dictates that if you're born with a penis you're attracted to women. Plenty of gay animals around. Seems particularly prevalent amongst Penguins weirdly. Probably something to do with them all looking like they're wearing little tuxedos. Quite a few instances of same sex Penguin couples adopting a chick and raising it successfully, although admittedly they don't need to lactate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 38 minutes ago, HeliX said: Can't be, biology dictates that if you're born with a penis you're attracted to women. No it doesn’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cueey Lewis And The News Posted November 21, 2023 Author Share Posted November 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, The Phantom said: Plenty of gay animals around. You can’t conflate the gay issue with the science denying militant trans lobby. If the trans militants are to be believed I’d really like to meet a militant trans terf hating jeweller who believes that it’s entirely possible to have the fake Rolex I bought in Kowloon market for £25 10 years ago recognized as a genuine Submariner. Judging by their reality defying beliefs it must be entirely possible for everyone to accept it as the real thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, The Phantom said: Anything with Govt is slow going and frustrating and honestly I'm not really suggesting hide. If something you think is going to be inflamitaory (if you really do?), then why push it. Plus it's nightime in November! Plenty of gay animals around. Seems particularly prevalent amongst Penguins weirdly. Probably something to do with them all looking like they're wearing little tuxedos. Quite a few instances of same sex Penguin couples adopting a chick and raising it successfully, although admittedly they don't need to lactate. 13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: No it doesn’t If you can accept that sexual attraction is not limited to what “bits” you’ve physically got, why do you find it so difficult to accept that gender, the way you manifest your identity doesn’t need to coincide with your physical or genetic attributes. Whats wrong with sexuality and gender being on a continuum? We all, probably, know very camp married, CIS, men, or very butch, muscular, gay, bottoms. I don’t think there are threatening and ultra vocal trans activists. At least, if there are, it’s not many. There are very many anti trans soapboxers, and they are vocal and are given lots of media space by the right wing media. Disproportionately so, from my point of view. And, having lived through the law change debate, and society changes over the 50+ years since I came out, I am convinced that the most vehement arguments against trans people are just the same as those used against me and the gay community over the decades. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: No it doesn’t And by the same token being born with a penis doesn’t mean you aren't a woman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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