HeliX Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 17 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: No it doesn’t Then why does it dictate your gender? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, John Wright said: And by the same token being born with a penis doesn’t mean you aren't a woman. It’s this sort of silly remark which encourages people to ridicule the trans movement and does it no favours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: It’s this sort of silly remark which encourages people to ridicule the trans movement and does it no favours No. It’s your remark that’s silly. You still seem incapable of understanding the difference between biological gamete determined sex and socially determined gender, what we wear, make up, how we comport ourselves, what we believe ourselves to be, in short, our identity, how we express ourselves. And for some, if you subscribe to the continuum theory of gender that expression is so strong that a change of birth certificate and physical attributes is essential. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 25 minutes ago, John Wright said: I don’t think there are threatening and ultra vocal trans activists. At least, if there are, it’s not many. Tell that to Stock, Rowling et al when they getting daily hate mail, death threats etc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 minute ago, The Voice of Reason said: Tell that to Stock, Rowling et al when they getting daily hate mail, death threats etc Tell that to the people they’ve decried, belittled, denied. Ask yourself why they, Stock, Rowling, et al, chose to involve themselves in this and attack and then portray themselves as martyrs. In truth it’s not far in philosophical terms from Zionist and Hamas. And at the end of the day fighting and shouting insults, and threats and deaths, won’t resolve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 minute ago, John Wright said: Tell that to the people they’ve decried, belittled, denied. Ask yourself why they, Stock, Rowling, et al, chose to involve themselves in this and attack and then portray themselves as martyrs. In truth it’s not far in philosophical terms from Zionist and Hamas. And at the end of the day fighting and shouting insults, and threats and deaths, won’t resolve. Attacking, or just expressing a point of view? Nobody wants, or should want, fighting, shouting insults, threats and deaths in the trans debate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Attacking, or just expressing a point of view? Nobody wants, or should want, fighting, shouting insults, threats and deaths in the trans debate. If someone was trying to legislate against your existence you might be quite displeased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said: you’ll get shouted down and de-platformed if you don’t agree with an argument Have you been "de-platformed"? It is another nonsense term which really refers to people being prevented from spouting hate speech on Twitter/X, Facebook, Instagram and TV. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Have you been "de-platformed"? It is another nonsense term which really refers to people being prevented from spouting hate speech on Twitter/X, Facebook, Instagram and TV. Saying a man is born with a Penis a woman with a vagina isn't hate speech though yet people get criticised for it. Edited November 21, 2023 by thommo2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Chie said: The aim of the vigil itself isn't to change anything per se. Similar to the various other days of remembrance, it’s about remembering those who have gone before you, what it is you are fighting for and how much left there is to do to bring about the change that’s needed. We actually do do a lot behind the scenes the rest of the year when it comes to talking to officials, meeting with MHKs and various government departments. And trying to improve the situation here on the island. We are fortunate that here on the island the situation isn't as bad as on the mainland and we do have local and government officials who are willing to listen and work with us. It is just slow going. For example, i’m trying to work on improving the islands concept of gender recognition. Others are working with MHKs on hate crime legislation. Others are working towards improving the state of healthcare on the island. There is a lot that we do behind the scenes. And this leads back to the statement i made earlier of people actually engaging with us and finding out who we actually are and what we actually do, rather than what they have been lead to believe. I have said it time and time again, i am more than happy to meet anyone for coffee who would like to know more about the trans community, ask questions, alleviate fears etc etc. And that offer still stands. Just like i did with @Stu Peters a couple of years back and that went a lot better than i expected it to. As for holding the vigil in a community centre rather than in public. I guess the answer to that is, why should we? We have as much right to use that space as any other person. Why should we have to hide away? Yes, there is risk associated with it and yes we do risk painting a target on our back. But should we have to cower in fear because of it? So genuine query what is it Trans people are being prevented from doing on the Island? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 1 minute ago, thommo2010 said: Saying a man is born with a Penis a woman with a vagina isn't hate speech though yet people get criticised for it. It's inaccurate and stupid if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, HeliX said: It's inaccurate and stupid if that helps. Well that's your opinion which your perfectly entitled to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: Well that's your opinion which your perfectly entitled to. Trans people exist. This is both easily observed and well studied. So of course you can't tell someones gender from the bits they were born with. Just as you can't tell their sexuality from the bits they were born with. In both cases you can say what's probable, but not definite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 53 minutes ago, HeliX said: If someone was trying to legislate against your existence you might be quite displeased. “ legislate against your existence “ ? You mean make laws to kill you? Its this level of hysteria from the trans camp that wins them few friends. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, thommo2010 said: So genuine query what is it Trans people are being prevented from doing on the Island? It’s made very difficult to transition, socially and medically. The delays in referral and being seen and offered treatment are horrendous. That’s in part due to the mess that’s been created in the UK GIDS by campaigners who have effectively closed it down, because they opposed its philosophy. To get your gender recognition certificate you have to go through a long an arduous process. Part of which is “living as”. If you do that you break the law every time you go into a public loo. We've ended up completely medicalising a situation that is at least in part social. That’s how gay men were treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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