IOMs most pointless vigil?

[thommo2010]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

You just make huge assumptions there. 

First not everyone does full bottom or lower surgery. Many keep their bits and rely on the effect of the drugs.

Sure there should be time for reflection and acclimatisation.

But there’s a lack of counselling and support, there’s a huge delay in seeing a shrink here, and even longer before you get to see GIDS ( or whatever will eventually replace ).

And you seem to misunderstand blockers, their purpose and effect. They delay puberty in someone who is expressing gender discordance. That allows the breathing space you say they should have before hormone treatment and surgery.

I’ll make an assumption now. The scientific reports you’ve seen, are in the peer reviewed and balanced Mail, Telegraph, etc. etc. ?

You know what they say about assumptions John.

[John Wright]

3 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

You know what they say about assumptions John.

I’ll raise you and see you. Where did you read about the youngsters who transitioned an then regretted and transitioned back?

or, more specifically, been prescribed puberty blockers and regretted it?

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Have you been "de-platformed"?  It is another nonsense term which really refers to people being prevented from spouting hate speech on Twitter/X, Facebook, Instagram and TV.

That’s nonsense. J K Rowling and many others who they have tried to overtly destroy aren’t hate filled people. They’re just trying to debate with science deniers. 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

3 minutes ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

That’s nonsense. J K Rowling and many others who they have tried to overtly destroy aren’t hate filled people. They’re just trying to debate with science deniers. 

It isn’t science if you cherry pick it. 

[Happier diner]

51 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

What if you're born with both?

That's so rare it not even in the arguement. 

[AcousticallyChallenged]

2 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

That's so rare it not even in the arguement. 

Ask a midwife.

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

1 hour ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

I don't agree. Although sexuality and gender are different things, the view of homosexuality and homosexual practices as something subject to morality seems to be a product of gender expectations.  And these expectations have been argued to be a product of and reinforced by the modern idea of heterosexuality and the values behind what it is to be heterosexual.  This is why trans people and gay people have a shared problem and can find common cause.

I don’t agree with that. Specifically as I would imagine that a lot of trans people probably ultimately are setting themselves on a pathway to normality where they aspire to be seen as straight so it’s likely got little to do with attitudes to homosexuality. And in fact I’m sure many people find it odd that the gay community so readily aligns itself with people many of whom you might suggest are actively escaping gayness by transitioning into roles where they would certainly not regard themselves as gay at all. Otherwise why would you have the trans women are women debate if many didn’t actually seek to normalize their status as female rather than just be seen as someone who is a trans woman who likes men?

Edited November 21, 2023 by Cueey Lewis And The News

[AcousticallyChallenged]

3 minutes ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

Otherwise why would you have the trans women are women debate if many didn’t actually seek to normalize their status as female rather than just be seen as someone who is a trans woman who likes men?

Generally, people just want to exist in peace. 

Problem is, there are folks who don’t get that, and so see them as an easy target for violence or aggression in various forms.

Being a trans person, for example, makes you statistically more likely to be on the receiving end of violence. And the odds of it being punished are lower.

So, what do you do? Do you just accept that people won’t let you be? Or do you try and campaign to have the same rights as everyone else?

[Banker]

6 minutes ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

I don’t agree with that. Specifically as I would imagine that a lot of trans people probably ultimately are setting themselves on a pathway to normality where they aspire to be seen as straight so it’s likely got little to do with attitudes to homosexuality. And in fact I’m sure many people find it odd that the gay community so readily aligns itself with people many of whom you might suggest are actively escaping gayness by transitioning into roles where they would certainly not regard themselves as gay at all. Otherwise why would you have the trans women are women debate if many didn’t actually seek to normalize their status as female rather than just be seen as someone who is a trans woman who likes men?

FFS you’re getting more extreme in your far right views every day

[John Wright]

12 minutes ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

I don’t agree with that. Specifically as I would imagine that a lot of trans people probably ultimately are setting themselves on a pathway to normality where they aspire to be seen as straight so it’s likely got little to do with attitudes to homosexuality. And in fact I’m sure many people find it odd that the gay community so readily aligns itself with people many of whom you might suggest are actively escaping gayness by transitioning into roles where they would certainly not regard themselves as gay at all. Otherwise why would you have the trans women are women debate if many didn’t actually seek to normalize their status as female rather than just be seen as someone who is a trans woman who likes men?

You just need to get your head round the fact that the sexuality spectrum and the gender spectrum are separate. They’re both continuum. They may intersect. But they’re two separe things. And people can be in different places on each at different stages in their lives.

if someone transitions their gender it has nothing to do with “escaping gayness”. Sexual attraction and gender identity are independent.

I know trans men who are CIS, gay, bi, asexual, poly. And trans women who are lesbian, bi asexual, poly. ( I’ve limited the category  labels because I’m not keen on labels generally and some people, me included, find the alphabet city of terms confusing, to some degree or another )

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

31 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Being a trans person, for example, makes you statistically more likely to be on the receiving end of violence. And the odds of it being punished are lower.

That’s a totally understandable statistic. Because in a patriarchal society people are often transitioning into more vulnerable roles than they had. The same as any woman who has a higher risk of domestic or sexual assault or violence or murder by a partner. It’s less likely to be to do with being trans and more likely to do with someone wanting to assume the role in society of a traditionally more vulnerable person. Which is the point Rowling often makes.  Most women have fought for centuries to be treated better by society you can’t just join the club and expect it to be different for you when you fancy it. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Cueey Lewis And The News

[HeliX]

Who can imagine why it fits so well into the LGB fight eh.

[AcousticallyChallenged]

4 minutes ago, Cueey Lewis And The News said:

That’s a totally understandable statistic. Because in a patriarchal society people are often transitioning into more vulnerable roles than they had. The same as any woman who has a higher risk of domestic or sexual assault or violence or murder by a partner. It’s less likely to be to do with being trans and more likely to do with someone wanting to assume the role in society of a more vulnerable person. Which is the point Rowling often makes.  Most women have fought for centuries to be treated better by society you can’t just join the club and expect it to be different for you when you fancy it. 

Well, aside from the fact trans women are more likely to be victims.

But is it the case misogyny should mean people can’t be trans?

It’s interesting that people seldom question women transitioning to being men.

It’s as though, from a sexist’s perspective, one could respect the upwards mobility it brings. 

[Cueey Lewis And The News]

4 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

But is it the case misogyny should mean people can’t be trans?

It’s interesting that people seldom question women transitioning to being men.

It’s as though, from a sexist’s perspective, one could respect the upwards mobility it brings. 

No it’s highly likely a case of most women thinking welcome to the club now stop moaning about the vulnerable situation you’re in as you got what you wanted as this is the template that society has set women for centuries that we’ve been trying to change.

The rest I agree with you on. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Cueey Lewis And The News

[The Voice of Reason]

41 minutes ago, AcousticallyChallenged said:

Ask a midwife.

Yes because loads of midwives have delivered babies who have both sets of genitalia haven’t they?

Quite a common occurrence are you saying?