Manx State Pension

[Expat.]

7 hours ago, John Wright said:

No. The UK pensioners Christmas bonus is a measly £10. Not sure what the other £490 is in your £500 figure.

This person is referring to the UK's winter fuel allowance which is £500 per pensioner household this year.

[John Wright]

6 minutes ago, Expat. said:

This person is referring to the UK's winter fuel allowance which is £500 per pensioner household this year.

Except it’s between £250 and £600 and it’s not the Christmas Bonus

[woolley]

7 hours ago, Banker said:

What’s your proposal for funding this? If you said minimum wage of £10.75 x 4  is c£22500 pa which is totally unaffordable without a massive increase in taxes for working people.

Exactly. Everyone wants more, but nobody has a clue where it's coming from. Do they expect younger workers with commitments to pay even more when they are harder pressed than lots of pensioners?

[woolley]

20 hours ago, Anyone said:

No , in the UK it’s £500.

So would you trade the new Manx pension which is almost 20 quid a week more than the new UK pension for the one off £500 heating allowance in the UK? And maybe some Manx Supplement on top? That doesn't sound too smart.

Unless you are a UK state pensioner living here with no rights to a Manx pension and no heating allowance either. That is the worst of all worlds and a bit of rough justice. I would agree that under those circumstances the UK heating allowance should be granted. It's strange that there are a number of EEA countries where you can claim it while living abroad, but unfortunately this does not extend to the Crown Dependencies. I once asked Home Affairs and DHSS here to make representations to the UK about this on behalf of an ex-employee in the situation (no Manx Supplement either through insufficient residency). Needless to say there were blank looks all round. It wouldn't harm them to ask, it would be a bit more income for some poorer Island resident pensioners, and the rich ones could give our government £100 tax out of it.

https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/if-you-live-abroad

[Lilly]

4 minutes ago, woolley said:

Exactly. Everyone wants more, but nobody has a clue where it's coming from. Do they expect younger workers with commitments to pay even more when they are harder pressed than lots of pensioners?

Your last sentence is actually very accurate.  l think if you look at younger workers, they are struggling financially.  are really struggling.  There are some extremely well-off pensioners here, some are not so well off.  We live in an "l'm alright, Jack" society, most of those people don't really care about anyone else.

[Kopek]

2 hours ago, woolley said:

Exactly. Everyone wants more, but nobody has a clue where it's coming from. Do they expect younger workers with commitments to pay even more when they are harder pressed than lots of pensioners?

The tax system does or should take that into account!

[Roger Mexico]

7 hours ago, Lilly said:

I suppose you might presume that it effects mostly fairly young single occupants living in apartments in full-time occupation.  I would like to challenge that view if that is the conclusion. The census would give more accurate picture.

The published census tables don't really help.  One tells you where the single person households are at the local authority level.  Although they average at 32.7% of households on the Island (12,158 out of 37,220), it varies between 21.9% in Maughold to 38.3% in Ramsey.  Generally the towns have a higher percentage that the parishes, which is what you'd expect with more flats in the towns and so on.

The other table (following page) tells you how big the properties are as against how many people are in them.  This is mainly to look at overcrowding[1], but it also tells you the sort of housing single person households occupy:

But we don't have any information on age, though it should be easy enough for the Cabinet office to work out if they want.  The best we have is from the UK where the percentage is a bit lower at 30%, though it was 36% in Scotland.  There:

The age distribution of those living alone has been increasing over time for both men and women. Since 2020, half of those living alone have been aged 65 years and over (51% in 2022). A decade earlier in 2012, 45% of those living alone were in this age group. In 2022, more than 1 in 5 men and 1 in 3 women living alone were aged 75 years or over.

While women account for the majority of those living alone age 65 years and over (64%), this proportion has been reducing over time (69% in 2012). This reflects the greater increases in male life expectancy seen in recent years, as more men are living alone at older ages.

I would imagine that this would imply that older people make up a majority of such households here.

But the phenomenon of single person households is one that is growing rapidly.  In the 2016 Census (so only five years before) there were only 10,755 out of 35,763 households, 30.1%. The 1,457 increase in households was almost entirely accounted for by the increase of 1,403 in single person ones.

 

[1]  Which is perhaps less than you'd fear.  There were only 2 one-bed places with 4 people in for example - and none with more.

[Lilly]

6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

The published census tables don't really help.  One tells you where the single person households are at the local authority level.  Although they average at 32.7% of households on the Island (12,158 out of 37,220), it varies between 21.9% in Maughold to 38.3% in Ramsey.  Generally the towns have a higher percentage that the parishes, which is what you'd expect with more flats in the towns and so on.

The other table (following page) tells you how big the properties are as against how many people are in them.  This is mainly to look at overcrowding[1], but it also tells you the sort of housing single person households occupy:

But we don't have any information on age, though it should be easy enough for the Cabinet office to work out if they want.  The best we have is from the UK where the percentage is a bit lower at 30%, though it was 36% in Scotland.  There:

The age distribution of those living alone has been increasing over time for both men and women. Since 2020, half of those living alone have been aged 65 years and over (51% in 2022). A decade earlier in 2012, 45% of those living alone were in this age group. In 2022, more than 1 in 5 men and 1 in 3 women living alone were aged 75 years or over.

While women account for the majority of those living alone age 65 years and over (64%), this proportion has been reducing over time (69% in 2012). This reflects the greater increases in male life expectancy seen in recent years, as more men are living alone at older ages.

I would imagine that this would imply that older people make up a majority of such households here.

But the phenomenon of single person households is one that is growing rapidly.  In the 2016 Census (so only five years before) there were only 10,755 out of 35,763 households, 30.1%. The 1,457 increase in households was almost entirely accounted for by the increase of 1,403 in single person ones.

 

[1]  Which is perhaps less than you'd fear.  There were only 2 one-bed places with 4 people in for example - and none with more.

Thank you, Roger.  That was really interesting informative reading, l certainly think it gave an insight into a reasonable request to look at the 25% discount income-related. JW point out in a previous post the massive implementation cost, which would be passed on to remaining rate payers, l would strongly object to as younger people are struggling financially, especially those with families. I would like to suggest that maybe we should do the right thing; Kopek suggested we should in a previous post too, especially if it was based on age related and income-based.  I myself fall into the low-income based category, so l have to use my depleting savings to pay my rates bill of nearly £2000. 

I would also like to ask;  What are our elected MHKs actually doing about this?  Is this a hot potato topic? 

Edited November 25, 2023 by Lilly
Add last paragraph

[John Wright]

13 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Thank you, Roger.  That was really interesting informative reading, l certainly think it gave an insight into a reasonable request to look at the 25% discount income-related. JW point out in a previous post the massive implementation cost, which would be passed on to remaining rate payers, l would strongly object to as younger people are struggling financially, especially those with families. I would like to suggest that maybe we should do the right thing; Kopek suggested we should in a previous post too, especially if it was based on age related and income-based.  I myself fall into the low-income based category, so l have to use my depleting savings to pay my rates bill of nearly £2000. 

I would also like to ask;  What are our elected MHKs actually doing about this?  Is this a hot potato topic? 

Revaluation exercises are usually paid for by government, ie all taxpayers. Discount schemes, such as rebates to those with low incomes or discounts for sole occupancy are usually paid for by other rate payers.

A 25% reduction to sole occupiers, assuming they’re 33% of the households, results in a 12.5% increase for multi person households.

Im neither for, nor against. Just pointing out that there is a cost, and where it will likely fall.

[Lilly]

7 minutes ago, John Wright said:

Revaluation exercises are usually paid for by government, ie all taxpayers. Discount schemes, such as rebates to those with low incomes or discounts for sole occupancy are usually paid for by other rate payers.

A 25% reduction to sole occupiers, assuming they’re 33% of the households, results in a 12.5% increase for multi person households.

Im neither for, nor against. Just pointing out that there is a cost, and where it will likely fall.

l misunderstood some of your post and thought the implementation of new system costs would fall to existing rate payers.  Thank you for the clarification. 

[Numbnuts]

2 hours ago, Lilly said:

I would also like to ask;  What are our elected MHKs actually doing about this?  Is this a hot potato topic? 

They are doing nothing Lilly. As I mentioned Chris Thomas definitely tried to do something a few years ago but met with zero response in treasury and they reckoned it was to complicated to work out. How that is I’m not sure. Just a simple % you’d think might work based on rateable value.  Who knows though. They’re not bothered as they pick up over 70k plus . 

[Moghrey Mie]

Don't we elect politicians to make hard decisions?

The rating system is unfair and needs changing.

Back to Manx State Pension.....

Edited November 25, 2023 by Moghrey Mie

[woolley]

46 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said:

Don't we elect politicians to make hard decisions?

The rating system is unfair and needs changing.

Back to Manx State Pension.....

It's a good population leveller in that we all pay for it, or should, and we all get it. It's a safety net too, and in a decent society should always be maintained as such, and as a dependable base for income in old age.

[Lilly]

2 hours ago, Numbnuts said:

They are doing nothing Lilly. As I mentioned Chris Thomas definitely tried to do something a few years ago but met with zero response in treasury and they reckoned it was to complicated to work out. How that is I’m not sure. Just a simple % you’d think might work based on rateable value.  Who knows though. They’re not bothered as they pick up over 70k plus . 

Thank you so much for your reply. What is sad is l'm not really that surprised.  

[NoTail]

Backto the Manx pension. 

As my pension is rapidly approaching I asked for a pension forecast about 6 weeks ago. As I had not heard anything I sent a email to chase it up. The reply came quite quickly that thus takes up to 6 months!

I can't get my head round this. I have paid  NI continuously for 46 years on the island. How on earth can it take 6 months to work out what my pension will be?