Homelessness Strategy to go before Tynwald in December 2023

[Moghrey Mie]

Just now, Passing Time said:

What’s happening with all the empty properties on Lord Street. 90 or so flats lying empty 

Unfit for occupation. Difficult/ impossible site to develop.

[Gladys]

52 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said:

'The Isle of Man recently introduced a definition of homeless in the Exceptional Needs Grants and Budgeting Loans (Amendment) Regulations 2022 and has the opportunity to develop this definition into legislation that provides statutory rights for all persons to be housed, in line with other Great Britain jurisdictions.'

Still no legal obligation to house people here on the island. In England local authorities must make provision.

Indeed and it has to be appropriate with support.  I believe that there is a programmed approach in the UK to provide support and assistance to re-housing homeless people until they are able to  live without support.  Not sure how effective it is, but it is much more than providing a roof over the head and being disappointed that sometimes there is damage. 

Perhaps we don't have the social problems of the UK, but to look at it as providing just a roof over their heads is missing the opportunity to solve the underlying problem rather than just throwing an elastoplast over it. 

Did Graih have a better understanding? 

[Gladys]

1 hour ago, Moghrey Mie said:

Unfit for occupation. Difficult/ impossible site to develop.

They were fit for occupation until a short while ago.  So, while occupied they were not fit? 

It would be interesting to see if a refurb as opposed to redevelopment has been looked at. 

Arent they owned by Dandara now?  

 

[Passing Time]

2 hours ago, Moghrey Mie said:

Difficult/ impossible site to develop.

Don’t believe that for one moment. Dandara have their fingerprints all over this. I smell a rat…

[thommo2010]

On 8/31/2024 at 5:32 PM, John Wright said:

@thommo2010 

60 years ago they’d have been at Ballamona. 15 years before that they’d have been at the Mannin Infirmary ( a workhouse ). And before 1900 at the House of Industry ( another workhouse ), now the the Ellan Vannin Home.

It’s a problem when you introduce care in the community, it’s not at all about the human rights of the patients, it’s about saving money on the buildings, utilities, staff, food. It’s cheaper to give then benefits and muddle along on their own.

Care in the community is a great idea, and works, but only if you have proper care, well funded, and with sufficient qualified and experienced staff.

Like I say John a number of people are homeless because of those issues and as you said there needs to be proper care which is funded. 

 

It has also been a while since I was at school so i don't know what gets taught these days but having some classes on money management, cooking real life skills would help as I know a number of youngsters who may be smart in terms of using technology but struggle to do simple tasks for themselves

[Declan]

Part of the problem is people having a deposit ready and means to pay rent, and putting in offers on flats at or above the asking price and still getting knocked back because there’s twenty other people bidding for the flat. It’s not just people who lack the skills to cope with day to day living, although I appreciate that those living quietly in B&Bs or sofa surfing won’t cross Thomo2010’s path. 

[Moghrey Mie]

On 8/31/2024 at 10:08 PM, Gladys said:

They were fit for occupation until a short while ago.  So, while occupied they were not fit? 

It would be interesting to see if a refurb as opposed to redevelopment has been looked at. 

Arent they owned by Dandara now?  

 

I think they are still owned by Douglas Corporation.

[Gladys]

5 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said:

I think they are still owned by Douglas Corporation.

Wasn't there a swap to get the new flats built? 

[Moghrey Mie]

10 hours ago, Gladys said:

Wasn't there a swap to get the new flats built? 

Maybe but that would be a recent development.

My understanding is that the site is virtually impossible to work on.

https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/lord-street-flats-could-be-sold/

Edited September 3 by Moghrey Mie

[Gladys]

17 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said:

Maybe but that would be a recent development.

My understanding is that the site is virtually impossible to work on.

https://www.three.fm/news/isle-of-man-news/lord-street-flats-could-be-sold/

Thanks MM, I was barking up the wrong tree there. 

[Roger Mexico]

14 hours ago, Gladys said:

Wasn't there a swap to get the new flats built? 

You're memory's not completely wrong.  The building of the new flats and the redevelopment of the Lord Street ones were certainly linked at the time. It was sort of assumed that there was some sort of deal with Dandara, but there was nothing specific. 

Given how often grand schemes to redevelop sites for 'executive apartments' in central Douglas come to nothing, I don't think we should be surprised.  But whether it was anything more than the plans and Dandara lulled the Council with vague promises to get the contract, I don't know.

Edited to add:  I did check the land registry to see if there had been any transfer of ownership, but nothing obvious.

Edited September 3 by Roger Mexico

[english zloty]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

You're memory's not completely wrong.  The building of the new flats and the redevelopment of the Lord Street ones were certainly linked at the time. It was sort of assumed that there was some sort of deal with Dandara, but there was nothing specific. 

Given how often grand schemes to redevelop sites for 'executive apartments' in central Douglas come to nothing, I don't think we should be surprised.  But whether it was anything more than the plans and Dandara lulled the Council with vague promises to get the contract, I don't know.

Edited to add:  I did check the land registry to see if there had been any transfer of ownership, but nothing obvious.

Dandara couldn't sell the concept of gentlemen's residential property at that site, so made an agreement for design and build with DBC. The only connection Lord Street has is that some of the incoming residents came from there. 

I think MDC were trying to get their paws on Lord Street at a much reduced rate. So DBC told them to sling their hook. They returned with a deal on Westmoreland site, and so DBC supported the development all of a sudden. 

[Roger Mexico]

I complained earlier about the lack of data this new 'strategy' was based on.  I still can't can't find anything definitive, but IOM Newspapers published a piece that does have some figures in it:

More than 60 people have needed emergency overnight accommodation in the past year and a half, figures show.

[...]Between February 2023 and June 2024, 63 individuals including two families needed overnight housing. More than £60,000 was spent on providing such accommodation between February 2023 and February 2024.

In May this year a homelessness coordinator was appointed and has been project managing the implementation of the strategy.

The provision of the emergency overnight housing service through Manx Care is a key target achieved by the Homelessness Strategy and it will recruit two lead professionals for the Eastern Wellbeing Partnership which will then become fully operational island-wide.

Manx Care will also recruit four community workers to work within the Wellbeing Partnerships to provide support to those accessing both the homelessness and self-neglect pathways.

Next steps will see the development of care services to ensure individuals are receiving all the support they need with permanent accommodation the end goal.

David Ashford MHK, chair of the Housing and Communities Board, said: [...] ‘The significant progress of the Homelessness Strategy action plan is the result of the strategic partnership which has brought together thinking from key areas of government and the experience of third sector organisations such as Housing Matters, The Salvation Army and Praxis Care.'

63 people doesn't sound much in 17 months.  With two families and presumably a few couples, we're looking at 55 or so cases, though it's possible that some needed housing more than once.  That's in over 500 days - so about one case every ten days.

And yet to cope with this they are proposing setting up a new department of seven people, though some may also be involved in other services.  This is despite them admitting that the current arrangements meant that no one actually had to sleep on the streets in the period. 

[Ivy]

59 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

I complained earlier about the lack of data this new 'strategy' was based on.  I still can't can't find anything definitive, but IOM Newspapers published a piece that does have some figures in it:

More than 60 people have needed emergency overnight accommodation in the past year and a half, figures show.

[...]Between February 2023 and June 2024, 63 individuals including two families needed overnight housing. More than £60,000 was spent on providing such accommodation between February 2023 and February 2024.

In May this year a homelessness coordinator was appointed and has been project managing the implementation of the strategy.

The provision of the emergency overnight housing service through Manx Care is a key target achieved by the Homelessness Strategy and it will recruit two lead professionals for the Eastern Wellbeing Partnership which will then become fully operational island-wide.

Manx Care will also recruit four community workers to work within the Wellbeing Partnerships to provide support to those accessing both the homelessness and self-neglect pathways.

Next steps will see the development of care services to ensure individuals are receiving all the support they need with permanent accommodation the end goal.

David Ashford MHK, chair of the Housing and Communities Board, said: [...] ‘The significant progress of the Homelessness Strategy action plan is the result of the strategic partnership which has brought together thinking from key areas of government and the experience of third sector organisations such as Housing Matters, The Salvation Army and Praxis Care.'

63 people doesn't sound much in 17 months.  With two families and presumably a few couples, we're looking at 55 or so cases, though it's possible that some needed housing more than once.  That's in over 500 days - so about one case every ten days.

And yet to cope with this they are proposing setting up a new department of seven people, though some may also be involved in other services.  This is despite them admitting that the current arrangements meant that no one actually had to sleep on the streets in the period. 

Considering David Ashford set up Manx Care, there is little doubt in his abilities to create bloated civil-service jobs that aren't really required. Just look at how Manx Care always seems to want more and more money.

Why this isn't just being outsourced with an investment in the third sector is beyond me. Graih seemed to be doing a good job of getting the bench-sleepers and genuinely homeless off the streets. Surely the amount of money needed to create a department of seven could have been given to Graih and they'd have stretched that cash far beyond anything the IoM Government could do "in house".