Two-lane Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Stu Peters said: Try harder? What, to agree with you about something they fundamentally believe in? I voted for the motion, but I feel absolutely no animosity towards anyone who voted against it. Me. Because I screwed up the original post and had to edit it because some pedantic ManForumer is not capable of understanding wot I wrote in the first place. And anyway, in my opinion, MHKs should represent the views of the electorate, not their own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 Well I have no intention of voting for the two beauties who voted against it ever again brown nosing is something I cannot stand. Neither of them attend church on a regular basis so it is simply brown nosing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 52 minutes ago, Two-lane said: According to my computation, these are the people who voted to keep the bishop: Callister Cannan Christian Edge Glover Lord-Brennan Smith Wannenbrugh Woodhouse Moorhouse I wonder what the people who elected them think about that. Edited: Must try harder.... Edge was absent and so didn't vote. The full audio session is now available: https://www.tynwald.org.im/playaudio?file=/business/listen/AgainFiles/k231205a.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forestboy Posted December 5, 2023 Share Posted December 5, 2023 14 minutes ago, Fred the shred said: Well I have no intention of voting for the two beauties who voted against it ever again brown nosing is something I cannot stand. Neither of them attend church on a regular basis so it is simply brown nosing. +1 re Glover and Moorhouse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 15 hours ago, Fred the shred said: Well I have no intention of voting for the two beauties who voted against it ever again brown nosing is something I cannot stand. Neither of them attend church on a regular basis so it is simply brown nosing. You'd be surprised how many prospective MHKs turn up at church on a Sunday prior to a GE. When they don't get in you won't see them again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primator Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 15 hours ago, Fred the shred said: Well I have no intention of voting for the two beauties who voted against it ever again brown nosing is something I cannot stand. Neither of them attend church on a regular basis so it is simply brown nosing. To suggest that they are brown nosing the Bishop is totally outrageous Fred. The correct term is ring kissing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Mary Woodhouse I would have thought 🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 18 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Even if the June motion had been passed there would have to be a Bill introduced to the Keys to actually put the change in law. so it didn't actually make any difference. All the June motion did was to 'test the water'. Unless a journalist took down names, it will be a while before we get names of who voted, but in the previous thread on the topic I pointed out that an amendment to Faragher's motion that removed just the Bishop's vote (as this Bill does) won by 14-10 in the Keys, so there's a good chance that it will be mostly the same people. The 14 were: Allinson Ashford Barber Caine Corlett Crookall Faragher Haywood Hooper Maltby Peters Poole Wilson Watterson Thomas But this still all seems to me to be virtue-signalling when the real reform needed is to directly elect LegCo, a topic nobody seems to be raising. Now we know: "The MHKs who voted against it were: Rob Callister, Alfred Cannan, Claire Christian, Tim Glover, Kate Lord-Brennan, Jason Moorhouse, Andrew Smith, Chris Thomas and John Wannenburgh". Cannan says: " Removing the vote from the Isle of Man’s bishop could mean the end of the position entirely" - IMHO, not a bad thing, but as you said "the real reform needed is to directly elect LegCo..." or perhaps ought to abolish altogether. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/cannan-removing-bishops-vote-could-remove-position-entirely/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 I'm with you on reform which includes public election to the upper chamber but would not advocate it's removal because in a properly functioning government it plays a key role. This administration must be the protest ever for progressing legislation so God knows what they're up to. But that's not their fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 Imho, this Bishop thing has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with his vote which is proportionally strong in LegCo and which can also undo CoMin block votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 20 minutes ago, english zloty said: Imho, this Bishop thing has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with his vote which is proportionally strong in LegCo and which can also undo CoMin block votes. How do you mean "proportionally strong"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
code99 Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, english zloty said: I'm with you on reform which includes public election to the upper chamber but would not advocate it's removal because in a properly functioning government it plays a key role. This administration must be the protest ever for progressing legislation so God knows what they're up to. But that's not their fault. I take your point. One thing to bear in mind though is that having two legislative chambers is not necessary – about half of world’s independent jurisdictions are unicameral (single chamber). Whilst some would argue that the UK is on the skids, for example, Finland is a unicameral republic and the (allegedly) happiest country in the world. Incidentally, New Zealand has one legislative chamber too. As the old maxim states, it is “quality and not quantity” that ultimately matters most. Edited December 6, 2023 by code99 New Zealand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 On 12/5/2023 at 2:24 PM, Andy Onchan said: I really don't think these clowns have really understood the legal and administrative implications of that vote. If the Bishop doesn't have a vote in Tynwald then we might as well disengage the CoE completely from the legislature and be done with it. You say that like it would be a bad thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 18 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: You say that like it would be a bad thing. Putting it crudely, there's no point in having someone in the pissing contest if they can't piss. It's meaningless. As I said, if you're getting to get rid of one on the basis that it's not democratic then LegCo as a whole must go. Either they all stay or they all go.: Quote None of where the Bishop resides in LegCo is democratic. It's BS to say that MLCs are where they are due to democracy. None of them have a mandate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted December 6, 2023 Share Posted December 6, 2023 3 hours ago, Andy Onchan said: How do you mean "proportionally strong"? Sorry, that was weak wording. What I meant was with so few voting and the requirement to carry as a majority. Each member vote carries more sway than downstairs. However the LegCo has the power to significantly slow progress if it wishes to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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