Newbie Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, HeliX said: Israel must take responsibility for its behaviour and make amends for it, or there will never be peace. There will never be peace whilst it is the core belief of Hamas (and Hezbollah) that the state of Israel shouldn't exist and that all the Jewish people living there should be killed. How can you negotiate with someone who doesn't believe you have the right to exist? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 1 minute ago, P.K. said: It's war. In case you failed to notice it... The IDF would not intentionally strike an area if there was not a Hamas target there. Even you must be able to understand that they've got better things to do. Incidentally the civilian casualty lists are prepared by Hamas and therefore totally unreliable. I have also noticed that when folks are recovered from a strike the bearers deliberately make sure the cameras get a good view. The IDF are claiming over 5,000 Islamic Resistance Fighters have been eliminated. So only 35,000 to go. You can't wage war against terror. We've tried. It's not a war, it's Israel killing inordinate amounts of civilians. As for the casualty lists, when Israel publishes theirs they've been the same or higher than the Palestinian numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Newbie said: There will never be peace whilst it is the core belief of Hamas (and Hezbollah) that the state of Israel shouldn't exist and that all the Jewish people living there should be killed. How can you negotiate with someone who doesn't believe you have the right to exist? In 2017 Hamas accepted the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. But regardless, Hamas are not the Palestinian people. They're a terror group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 29 minutes ago, HeliX said: In 2017 Hamas accepted the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. But regardless, Hamas are not the Palestinian people. They're a terror group. I suppose that if you are a terror group dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and the killing of Jews living there, having control of the land both to the east and west of Israel is a good starting point for your "From the river to the sea" aspirations. Whichever way you look at it, Hamas are Palestinian. They may not enjoy the support of all of the Palestinian people, but to say that none of them support Hamas would not be true. They were after all voted in to power by the Palestinian people, albeit some years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 46 minutes ago, HeliX said: Yeah that'll fix it I'm sure. Well it will help you probably won't solve the situation itself mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 4 minutes ago, Newbie said: I suppose that if you are a terror group dedicated to the destruction of Israel, and the killing of Jews living there, having control of the land both to the east and west of Israel is a good starting point for your "From the river to the sea" aspirations. Whichever way you look at it, Hamas are Palestinian. They may not enjoy the support of all of the Palestinian people, but to say that none of them support Hamas would not be true. They were after all voted in to power by the Palestinian people, albeit some years ago. "some" years ago might be putting it mildly. The overwhelming majority of the current Gazan population (Hamas were not voted in in the West Bank...) were not old enough to vote in the last election. And Hamas got in on a plurality. And won mostly due to running their campaign on ending the corruption of the previous Government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 Just left. A coffee to keep the pipes warm, £4.00. Devon wishing a crowd of mostly Muslims a "Merry Christmas" at a rally against apartheid, as a white South African, priceless. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 1 hour ago, HeliX said: In 2017 Hamas accepted the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. But regardless, Hamas are not the Palestinian people. They're a terror group. Made up of Palestinians... Give your arse a chance. 1 hour ago, HeliX said: You can't wage war against terror. We've tried. It's not a war, it's Israel killing inordinate amounts of civilians. But you can wage war against terrorists - just like right now. Who are now some 5,000+ down. You should be pleased and praising the IDF for their courage and sacrifice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, P.K. said: Made up of Palestinians... Give your arse a chance. But you can wage war against terrorists - just like right now. Who are now some 5,000+ down. You should be pleased and praising the IDF for their courage and sacrifice. The Tory party is made up of Brits, are you a Tory? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 18 hours ago, HeliX said: Raz Segal, Israeli professor of Holocaust and genocide studies says it's a genocide. Norman Finkelstein, political scientist who's spent his life studying the Holocaust and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict says it's a genocide. Omer Bartov, Israeli professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies says it's a genocide. There are countless others. Perhaps it's not Teapot who needs to learn something? Well done, you have found three people who have written something to support your opinion. The issue is far more complex than the reaction to the current actions been taken by the IDF. Genocide is a very emotive term to describe actions in war time. The problems are very much centred around the issues of defeating an enemy that has embedded itself around, underneath and within a civilian population. Hamas are the root cause of this. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, HeliX said: The Tory party is made up of Brits, are you a Tory? I'm a Pastafarian. For the second time give your arse a chance will you...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 51 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said: Just left. A coffee to keep the pipes warm, £4.00. Devon wishing a crowd of mostly Muslims a "Merry Christmas" at a rally against apartheid, as a white South African, priceless. Were the coppers there waving the Palestinian flag and taking the knee ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Shake me up Judy said: Were the coppers there waving the Palestinian flag and taking the knee ? Surprisingly there were no police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 54 minutes ago, joebean said: Well done, you have found three people who have written something to support your opinion. The issue is far more complex than the reaction to the current actions been taken by the IDF. Genocide is a very emotive term to describe actions in war time. The problems are very much centred around the issues of defeating an enemy that has embedded itself around, underneath and within a civilian population. Hamas are the root cause of this. There's lots, I just didn't see the point in listing them all for you. The consensus amongst genocide scholars is that Israel is engaging in a genocide. I'm sure you feel you know better than them, mind. Hamas is the root cause? They've only existed for 35 years of a conflict that's been ongoing for 75, so that's clever of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 First time seeing those over here. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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