Non-Believer Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, HeliX said: Hamas is the root cause? They've only existed for 35 years of a conflict that's been ongoing for 75, so that's clever of them. Hamas is just the current name/face/vehicle for what has been going on for that 75 years though. It will contain strains and ideologies from PLO, Fatah, ISIS, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, even Al Quaeda et al, all carefully funded by Iran and other states whose religious ideology involves the obliteration of Israel. Although Israel has done itself no favours with the unregulated annexation of further Palestinian land. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, HeliX said: There's lots, I just didn't see the point in listing them all for you. The consensus amongst genocide scholars is that Israel is engaging in a genocide. I'm sure you feel you know better than them, mind. Hamas is the root cause? They've only existed for 35 years of a conflict that's been ongoing for 75, so that's clever of them. There are 9 million Israelis who deserve to be left in peace, without fear of attack from those that do not want the two state “solution" that the “Palestinian” and Arab world has rejected on numerous occasions. The fact is, the only solution that suits Israel’s enemies is the complete destruction of Israel and driving the Jewish people, not for the first time in their long history, from their land. So what is your solution? For Israel to negotiate with HAMAS? About what? For Israel to cease to exist and for Jews once again to be driven out of their land to be dispersed over the world and Europe, without the means to defend themselves? That didn’t work out too well for them, in the past and the Jewish people could never accept that. The Palestinian cause is the favoured means for the left, academia and the “enlightened”, who all live far from Israel to express their favoured, and the oldest form of racism; anti-semitism. To deny Jews their safety; their land; their right to defend themselves; to accuse Jews of genocide whilst minimising the crimes and atrocities committed against them and to choose one side of this struggle, often on ill-informed grounds that deny history is just another form of anti-semitism. The conflict will never be addressed this way. It is complex and will never be helped to a fair outcome through the involvement of barbaric terror organisations or the need for Israel to commit its forces to dealing with terror threats. The world needs to stop listening to one side and think again. Israel exists because the League of Nations and then, the United Nations believed it was the only way of giving Jews their freedom and safety. Nothing much has changed for Jews in 75 years. Edited December 9, 2023 by joebean 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 Tbh this will go around in cycles like the main thread. EVERYBODY needs to stop killing innocent people, specifically children. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 1 minute ago, joebean said: There are 9 million Israelis who deserve to be left in peace, without fear of attack from those that do not want the two state “solution that the “Palestinian” and Arab world has rejected on numerous occasions. The fact is, the only solution that suits Israel’s enemies is the complete destruction of Israel and driving the Jewish people, not for the first time in their long history, from their land. So what is your solution? For Israel to negotiate with HAMAS? About what? For Israel to cease to exist and for Jews once again to be driven out of their land to be dispersed over the world and Europe, without the means to defend themselves? That didn’t work out too well for them, in the past and the Jewish people could never accept that. The Palestinian cause is the favoured means for the left, academia and the “enlightened”, who all live far from Israel to express their favoured, and the oldest form of racism; anti-semitism. To deny Jews their safety; their land; their right to defend themselves; to accuse Jews of genocide whilst minimising the crimes and atrocities committed against them and to choose one side of this struggle, often on ill-informed grounds that deny history is just another form of anti-semitism. The conflict will never be addressed this way. It is complex and will never be helped to a fair outcome through the involvement of barbaric terror organisations or the need for Israel to commit its forces to dealing with terror threats. The world needs to stop listening to one side and think again. Israel exists because the Keague of Nations and then, the United Nations believed it was the only way of giving Jews their freedom and safety. Nothing much has changed for Jews in 75 years. The solution is one state with equal rights for all with Jews and Arabs living in peace. The path there is complicated. And isn't helped by Likuds policies of violence against the Palestinian people. I don't agree with your summation of the reason Israel exists. Zionism began as an antisemitic project. The Zionists wanted the Jews out of Europe (where many of them were very much at home and had made their lives), and they saw the return of the Jews to Palestine as a necessary precursor for the return of Christ, where the Jews would then convert or rot in hell forever. Not very pro-Jewish. That said, it is necessary that Israel continues to exist because to change that would be equally as wrong as the Nakba was in the first place. The Jews have been uniquely and abhorrently persecuted throughout history. But never again means never again for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
display name Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Amadeus said: First time seeing those over here. The question is,who's on drums and which pub are they playing in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, joebean said: There are 9 million Israelis who deserve to be left in peace, without fear of attack from those that do not want the two state “solution that the “Palestinian” and Arab world has rejected on numerous occasions. The fact is, the only solution that suits Israel’s enemies is the complete destruction of Israel and driving the Jewish people, not for the first time in their long history, from their land. So what is your solution? For Israel to negotiate with HAMAS? About what? For Israel to cease to exist and for Jews once again to be driven out of their land to be dispersed over the world and Europe, without the means to defend themselves? That didn’t work out too well for them, in the past and the Jewish people could never accept that. The Palestinian cause is the favoured means for the left, academia and the “enlightened”, who all live far from Israel to express their favoured, and the oldest form of racism; anti-semitism. To deny Jews their safety; their land; their right to defend themselves; to accuse Jews of genocide whilst minimising the crimes and atrocities committed against them and to choose one side of this struggle, often on ill-informed grounds that deny history is just another form of anti-semitism. The conflict will never be addressed this way. It is complex and will never be helped to a fair outcome through the involvement of barbaric terror organisations or the need for Israel to commit its forces to dealing with terror threats. The world needs to stop listening to one side and think again. Israel exists because the Keague of Nations and then, the United Nations believed it was the only way of giving Jews their freedom and safety. Nothing much has changed for Jews in 75 years. Other than the attack on October the 7th (and a couple of hostages, for which there are many on the other side too), life has been going on as normal in Israel. Go to Instagram, location search for Tel-Aviv. Look at all the recently tagged pictures of bimbos on the beach, rich Americans being obnoxious etc etc. Do the same and look at Gaza. Decimated. Yes, they should negotiate with the leaders of Hamas, which funnily enough are nowhere near Gaza. No shit Hamas and people in Gaza would love to see Israel's downfall. Don't pin a creature into a corner, lock it up and never expect it to bite when it gets a chance. I'm working class, right leaning, uneducated. Your idea that this a left issue couldn't be further from the truth. Never thought I'd be at political event and agreeing with CLLR Devon. This isn't a political issue, it's a humanitarian one. Kids are being killed. The accusation that people calling what Israel is doing genocide, is somehow antisemitic is beyond stupid for many reasons. The irony is that the Jews (aka "the Hebrews") have positioned themselves as THE semites, completely disregarding the fact that all of the Arabs they are fighting, are in fact also semites. So the phrase "anti-semitic" is completely worthless. Call it what it is, anti-Israeli, anti-Jew, anti-Ashkenazi, anti-Zionist. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 23 minutes ago, HeliX said: The solution is one state with equal rights for all with Jews and Arabs living in peace. No it isn't. It's Fantasy Land. For it will never happen. Israel will quite understandably (for most intelligent adults that is) never give up their position of pre-eminence to live alongside those who want nothing other than to annihilate their state and massacre their people - again...! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 Just now, P.K. said: No it isn't. It's Fantasy Land. For it will never happen. Israel will quite understandably (for most intelligent adults that is) never give up their position of pre-eminence to live alongside those who want nothing other than to annihilate their state and massacre their people - again...! "No it isn't. It's Fantasy Land. For it will never happen. Israel Germany will quite understandably (for most intelligent adults that is) never give up their position of pre-eminence to live alongside those who want nothing other than to annihilate their state and massacre their people - again...!" One day the penny will drop in that little head of yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 How many were at this protest ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Fred the shred said: How many were at this protest ? ~140 Edited December 9, 2023 by HeteroErectus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 So just the usual suspects then who love a demo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeteroErectus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, Fred the shred said: So just the usual suspects then who love a demo. Less than 10 had blue/green hair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 38 minutes ago, HeteroErectus said: ~140 The video I saw made it more look like 20 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie Posted December 9, 2023 Share Posted December 9, 2023 1 hour ago, HeliX said: The solution is one state with equal rights for all with Jews and Arabs living in peace And then I woke up. It was all a dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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