Biosphere!

[Amadeus]

14 hours ago, CrazyDave said:

Loads of tractors with generators strapped to the back doing an unnecessary journey escorted by police cars and bikes.

A great night had by all, but where is the tipping point?

PS - were they all having their diesel dipped to check it for road use?

Wait until you find out we have two annual motorbike festivals attracting thousands of visitors and also actively encourage mega polluting cruise ships to come here. 

[CrazyDave]

4 minutes ago, Amadeus said:

Wait until you find out we have two annual motorbike festivals attracting thousands of visitors and also actively encourage mega polluting cruise ships to come here. 

I am fully aware thanks.

It’s the same question that nobody has even attempted to answer yet.

How far are we as an island prepared to take the biosphere, zero carbon stuff?  Because if we really want to do it none of those things should be happening and you can add steam trains and lots of others to the list

Is anyone here capable of trying to discuss something without trying and failing to be funny?

[TheTeapot]

We watched the tractors in the Square. It was very similar to last year, and the year before that.

Threw a twenty in the bucket even though I didn't know what it was for because Im just so fucking great.

[Holte End]

15 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

We watched the tractors in the Square. It was very similar to last year, and the year before that.

Threw a twenty in the bucket even though I didn't know what it was for because Im just so fucking great.

You threw twenty pence in the bucket, you are getting generous in your old age.

[wrighty]

13 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

I am fully aware thanks.

It’s the same question that nobody has even attempted to answer yet.

How far are we as an island prepared to take the biosphere, zero carbon stuff?  Because if we really want to do it none of those things should be happening and you can add steam trains and lots of others to the list

You have a point, you just didn't make it very well in the opening post, leading to all that followed. 
 

There are two extreme positions

1 Climate change is made up bollocks to allow governments to put up taxes on the little man, we should carry on burning coal etc

2 Climate change is an existential crisis for humanity and we need to revert to a pre-industrial lifestyle. 
 

I prefer a third way - climate change is happening, probably at least made worse if not actually caused by human activity, and we should take reasonable steps to reduce our impact while accepting that life goes on. Nothing we do or don't do on the island is going to change things at all, so carry on with tractor runs, motor racing etc. Just try and promote fuel efficiency, carbon neutrality etc without making it prohibitively expensive for all. 

[Amadeus]

8 minutes ago, wrighty said:

You have a point, you just didn't make it very well in the opening post, leading to all that followed. 
 

There are two extreme positions

1 Climate change is made up bollocks to allow governments to put up taxes on the little man, we should carry on burning coal etc

2 Climate change is an existential crisis for humanity and we need to revert to a pre-industrial lifestyle. 
 

I prefer a third way - climate change is happening, probably at least made worse if not actually caused by human activity, and we should take reasonable steps to reduce our impact while accepting that life goes on. Nothing we do or don't do on the island is going to change things at all, so carry on with tractor runs, motor racing etc. Just try and promote fuel efficiency, carbon neutrality etc without making it prohibitively expensive for all. 

Sensible post of the year. And my view as well. Every time the whole climate change thing comes up I think of this cartoon:

[CrazyDave]

17 minutes ago, wrighty said:

You have a point, you just didn't make it very well in the opening post, leading to all that followed. 
 

There are two extreme positions

1 Climate change is made up bollocks to allow governments to put up taxes on the little man, we should carry on burning coal etc

2 Climate change is an existential crisis for humanity and we need to revert to a pre-industrial lifestyle. 
 

I prefer a third way - climate change is happening, probably at least made worse if not actually caused by human activity, and we should take reasonable steps to reduce our impact while accepting that life goes on. Nothing we do or don't do on the island is going to change things at all, so carry on with tractor runs, motor racing etc. Just try and promote fuel efficiency, carbon neutrality etc without making it prohibitively expensive for all. 

Agreed entirely.  The first proper reply.

I still question us marketing ourselves as a biosphere nation and making such a big deal of trying to reduce carbon with wind farms etc.  It feels like if we want to do that then we should be more extreme in looking in what we do and don’t do, such as tractor runs and the TT.

Personally I say we just crack on as we are, take sensible steps to reduce our energy use and waste production, but stop making it a primary concern in everything and stop mentioning it all the time.

PS.  It’s a forum for discussing things and hopefully being slightly lighthearted.  The original post was aimed to generate a discussion and also provoke the usual responses from the usual idiots.  It just took much longer for someone with a brain to pitch in than I anticipated 

Edited December 10, 2023 by CrazyDave

[Amadeus]

3 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

Agreed entirely.  The first proper reply.

I still question us marketing ourselves as a biosphere nation and making such a big deal of trying to reduce carbon with wind farms etc.  It feels like if we want to do that then we should be more extreme in looking in what we do and don’t do, such as tractor runs and the TT.

Personally I say we just crack on as we are, take sensible steps to reduce our energy use and waste production, but stop making it a primary concern in everything and stop mentioning it all the time.

 

AI Biosphere, please. 

[A fool and his money.....]

50 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

I am fully aware thanks.

It’s the same question that nobody has even attempted to answer yet.

How far are we as an island prepared to take the biosphere, zero carbon stuff?  Because if we really want to do it none of those things should be happening and you can add steam trains and lots of others to the list

Is anyone here capable of trying to discuss something without trying and failing to be funny?

The biosphere has nothing to do with "zero carbon stuff." Even climate change is helped little by playing carbon emission top trumps.

Carbon emissions are a problem for the world and do need to be addressed, but singling out a couple of infrequent events just because not doing them won't effect you is a very inefficient and illogical way of doing it.

[doc.fixit]

Carbon emissions are  blindsiding us to all the other pollutants that cause far more problems than excess carbon. Check your digital footprint first then the number of times you change consumer goods just because you haven't got the latest. Just try some of theses things for a start and then consider India, China etc and their polluting ways and consider the support given to polluting industries by some UK politicians.

Do these things before trying to shame the inhabitants of a a small rock in the middle of the Irish Sea

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular just the hypocrites.

Edited December 10, 2023 by doc.fixit
spelling

[The Phantom]

On 12/10/2023 at 10:34 AM, Amadeus said:

Wait until you find out we have two annual motorbike festivals attracting thousands of visitors and also actively encourage mega polluting cruise ships to come here. 

The TT is 'carbon neutral' now.

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/tt-races-will-be-completely-carbon-neutral-government-says/

What they don't really say, it that is just done by buying some Carbon Credits to 'offset' the Carbon.

So no less carbon is released, extra money is spent, someone gets richer.

I've got some clients that are heavily involved in Carbon Credits.  It's quite interesting and also a nice little earner. In a typically flippant and blasé overview, they undertake projects like giving wifi to jungle tribes, the jungle doesn't get chopped down, the World Bank then gives them a load of carbon credits that they then sell on the open market as a commodity.  

Owning or procuring a Carbon Credit yourself is probably fairly tricky, but you can quite easily invest into ETFs that trade them. 

[Roger Mexico]

44 minutes ago, The Phantom said:

[...] Interesting and also a nice little earner. In a typically flippant and blasé overview, they undertake projects like giving wifi to jungle tribes, the jungle doesn't get chopped down, the World Bank then gives them a load of carbon credits that they then sell on the open market as a commodity.  

It's always been a complete scam and most genuine campaigners have been opposed from the start.  "Give us money and we promise not to chop down this bit of rainforest this year" isn't improving the environment, it's blackmail[1].  Those who pay these 'carbon credits' are just as guilty.   And there's really no excuse for anyone not realising this by now

[1]  Actually given that in many cases they are forbidden to do so or have no intention it's just another layer of scam.

[Andy Onchan]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:36 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

No it doesn't.

Contradictions are down the corridor on the left.

[Andy Onchan]

On 12/10/2023 at 11:04 AM, wrighty said:

You have a point, you just didn't make it very well in the opening post, leading to all that followed. 
 

There are two extreme positions

1 Climate change is made up bollocks to allow governments to put up taxes on the little man, we should carry on burning coal etc

2 Climate change is an existential crisis for humanity and we need to revert to a pre-industrial lifestyle. 
 

I prefer a third way - climate change is happening, probably at least made worse if not actually caused by human activity, and we should take reasonable steps to reduce our impact while accepting that life goes on. Nothing we do or don't do on the island is going to change things at all, so carry on with tractor runs, motor racing etc. Just try and promote fuel efficiency, carbon neutrality etc without making it prohibitively expensive for all. 

Sadly I don't think that's going to happen.

[The Phantom]

26 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

It's always been a complete scam and most genuine campaigners have been opposed from the start.  "Give us money and we promise not to chop down this bit of rainforest this year" isn't improving the environment, it's blackmail[1].  Those who pay these 'carbon credits' are just as guilty.   And there's really no excuse for anyone not realising this by now

[1]  Actually given that in many cases they are forbidden to do so or have no intention it's just another layer of scam.

Done much work in the industry yourself?

Honestly I am conflicted by it, but to say there is no benefit at all is not looking at the whole picture.

Sure, there is little benefit to the IOM or world if the TT goes Carbon neutral.  But actually having had exposure to the projects and industry I can see benefits at the roots of the projects.

These swathes of jungle aren’t protected.  They can be leased by anyone from the respective Authorities and Governments.  Be it loggers, cattle ranchers, palm oil growers or my clients.  The leases are 10 years+.

Wifi for the tribes is just a small aspect of it – they also do research on jungle medicines, set up schools, handicraft trade etc and my opinion is the locals are in a better position with these projects in place, rather than if the whole area got razed and was used for farming.   

However doing all the community stuff so the jungle doesn’t get chopped down earns less than the farming.  Whilst I’m sure the warm fuzzy glowing feeling of doing good for the communities and environment is great, unfortunately it cannot be exchanged for goods or services.  Someone has to balance the equation of earning vs environment.  Which is the World Bank when they originally issue the Credits, it’s an incentive to do something for the environment and actually get paid for it. 

The onward selling and trading of the Credits on the markets, so you can say you’ve offset some polluting activities, is however where it all gets a bit murky.