Manx Company buys 25% of Man Utd

[Max Power]

18 minutes ago, Declan said:

Well I'm not suggesting a maximum earnings cap, just that the rich pay a fair share. 

Anyway, most of the rich aren't hard workers or self-made. They've inherited their wealth or come from money and used their connections. 

I suspect the driven individuals who you describe are motivated more by status or creating something notable. Sounds like your guy approaches his hobbies in the same way as his business. 

I agree, they should pay a fair share. I think the problems arise when we try to define what a fair share is. We all pay an enormous amount of tax in one way or another, I think the IoM has pretty much got it right. If the UK adopted a similar strategy, they may find fewer people avoiding tax?   

[A fool and his money.....]

17 hours ago, Steve_Christian said:

And again. Let’s say Mr Rich owns 6 super cars at £100k each. I own a Rav 4. I pay £350 a year tax. He pays - Let’s assume £100 per car. He’s still paying £250 a year more than me. Therefore… contributing more. And he pays to have them valeted by a local firm. Which puts more into the economy (I don’t bother cleaning mine). Etc. 

Etc. I buy more vaseline because I know him.

[code99]

19 hours ago, Max Power said:

I agree, they should pay a fair share. I think the problems arise when we try to define what a fair share is. We all pay an enormous amount of tax in one way or another, I think the IoM has pretty much got it right. If the UK adopted a similar strategy, they may find fewer people avoiding tax?   

No, the UK cannot adopt a near-zero corporation and zero capital gain tax regime – doing that would result in the UK Govt going bust and causing a complete nationwide meltdown that could topple democracy.

Throughout the 1950s, 60s and 70s the UK (and the USA) had income tax rates which were close to 90% for the wealthiest citizens. The beneficiaries of high taxes were the likes of Jim Ratcliffe’s parents, a joiner and an office worker, who despite living in a council house were able to provide young Jim with happy childhood and also to take advantage of an excellent state-funded education.

Monaco, Jim Ratcliffe’s current tax residency, does not tax individuals on their income, but people who work in Monaco (e.g., waiters, cleaners, and those in other relatively humble jobs) often do not reside in Monaco (far too expensive). Most of Monaco’s regular workers live in the neighbouring France, where they pay hefty French taxes. In return for their taxes, they receive: education, health care, social care, pensions, etc, etc.

“The richest 1% own almost half of the world’s wealth, while the poorest half of the world own just 0.75%” - these are staggering and shameful statistics in the 21st century. The ‘crumbs’ that the rich individuals and their companies allow to ‘trickle-down’ to a few lucky workers who build their mansions and yachts, make and sell them luxury goods are immaterial in the wider context of reducing inequality, let alone eradicating poverty.

The richest 1% are determined not to pay their fair share of taxes. This is one of the main reasons why the governments of some of the world’s richest countries (USA, UK) are skint, and are now making cuts to essential frontline public services, which the large majority of ordinary citizens need. Naturally, the Tories don’t want to acknowledge this inconvenient truth and blame the so-called ‘scroungers’ for ‘bleeding the public purse’. But it is the Tories’ rich chums, who continuously do not contribute sufficient money to the public purse, who are creating this crisis. The Scandinavian countries have, traditionally, high tax rates; nevertheless, these countries consistently top the list of the world’s happiest countries/ communities.

We will soon find out whether Dr Allinson’s Tax Strategy will close the annual £150m gap between what the IOMG earns and what it spends. He will need to be careful not to raise taxes too much, because some of our wealthiest residents could throw a hissy fit and relocate themselves and their companies to somewhere else, e.g., Monaco.

[Max Power]

4 hours ago, code99 said:

No, the UK cannot adopt a near-zero corporation and zero capital gain tax regime – doing that would result in the UK Govt going bust and causing a complete nationwide meltdown that could topple democracy.

Throughout the 1950s, 60s and 70s the UK (and the USA) had income tax rates which were close to 90% for the wealthiest citizens. The beneficiaries of high taxes were the likes of Jim Ratcliffe’s parents, a joiner and an office worker, who despite living in a council house were able to provide young Jim with happy childhood and also to take advantage of an excellent state-funded education.

Monaco, Jim Ratcliffe’s current tax residency, does not tax individuals on their income, but people who work in Monaco (e.g., waiters, cleaners, and those in other relatively humble jobs) often do not reside in Monaco (far too expensive). Most of Monaco’s regular workers live in the neighbouring France, where they pay hefty French taxes. In return for their taxes, they receive: education, health care, social care, pensions, etc, etc.

“The richest 1% own almost half of the world’s wealth, while the poorest half of the world own just 0.75%” - these are staggering and shameful statistics in the 21st century. The ‘crumbs’ that the rich individuals and their companies allow to ‘trickle-down’ to a few lucky workers who build their mansions and yachts, make and sell them luxury goods are immaterial in the wider context of reducing inequality, let alone eradicating poverty.

The richest 1% are determined not to pay their fair share of taxes. This is one of the main reasons why the governments of some of the world’s richest countries (USA, UK) are skint, and are now making cuts to essential frontline public services, which the large majority of ordinary citizens need. Naturally, the Tories don’t want to acknowledge this inconvenient truth and blame the so-called ‘scroungers’ for ‘bleeding the public purse’. But it is the Tories’ rich chums, who continuously do not contribute sufficient money to the public purse, who are creating this crisis. The Scandinavian countries have, traditionally, high tax rates; nevertheless, these countries consistently top the list of the world’s happiest countries/ communities.

We will soon find out whether Dr Allinson’s Tax Strategy will close the annual £150m gap between what the IOMG earns and what it spends. He will need to be careful not to raise taxes too much, because some of our wealthiest residents could throw a hissy fit and relocate themselves and their companies to somewhere else, e.g., Monaco.

I agree with what you say, and well put BTW. 

I wasn't thinking of a tax model exactly like the IoM, I should have made that clear. I was thinking of one which deters large companies and UHNW individuals from considering leaving the country and paying a fair rate of tax. Alternatively being a lot more aggressive with companies and individuals who generate huge profits in Britain but pay no tax. Perhaps limiting their activities in some way? 

I guess that there is no straightforward way of achieving fair taxation? 

[Passing Time]

On 12/28/2023 at 8:01 AM, CrazyDave said:

No generalising there at all then 😂

As to the Doris example.  Have you ever considered that Doris has nothing to do all day and I waiting for someone to turn up she can talk to?

The rich guy, who you clearly hate because he is rich, might well have 15 people coming to his house that day and be busy inside on the phone or in meetings.

I have also personally heard builders moan at a big house because they were offered biscuits but because the guy was wealthy they thought he should get the breakfast baps. No wonder people don’t bother.

No, it’s because a large number of rich people are grade A twats.

[Steve_Christian]

20 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I agree with what you say, and well put BTW. 

I wasn't thinking of a tax model exactly like the IoM, I should have made that clear. I was thinking of one which deters large companies and UHNW individuals from considering leaving the country and paying a fair rate of tax. Alternatively being a lot more aggressive with companies and individuals who generate huge profits in Britain but pay no tax. Perhaps limiting their activities in some way? 

I guess that there is no straightforward way of achieving fair taxation? 

Global minimum tax rate of 15% on large corporates? 

[Passing Time]

On 12/28/2023 at 10:41 AM, Two-lane said:

"Sir Jim Ratcliffe is expected to ask an external auditor to assess Manchester United’s structure and expenditure with a view to a major streamlining exercise, meaning as many as 300 jobs are potentially under threat"

When they have finished reducing the head count by 30%, they are coming over here to analyse the Civil Service.

He should start with the first team squad…

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, Steve_Christian said:

Global minimum tax rate of 15% on large corporates? 

How large would the large corporate have to be to pay the minimum 15%?

[Steve_Christian]

2 hours ago, Andy Onchan said:

How large would the large corporate have to be to pay the minimum 15%?

I think pillar one is €20bn global revenue and 10% minimum profit. Pillar 2 €750 revenue but I can’t remeber the exact details. 

[code99]

5 hours ago, Max Power said:

I guess that there is no straightforward way of achieving fair taxation? 

An International Wealth Tax on super-rich individuals would be a game changer.

[Anyone]

On 12/27/2023 at 6:15 PM, A fool and his money..... said:

Although a "right" not available to most people.

To be fair you have to be rich first. I’d not cut my tax bill that much by moving to Monaco. So maybe I should have said an ‘option’ rather than a ‘right’. 

[The Voice of Reason]

On 12/29/2023 at 4:13 PM, Passing Time said:

No, it’s because a large number of rich people are grade A twats.

Quite possibly. But a large number of poor people are also grade A twats.

In fact let’s make it easy and say a large number of people are grade A twats, perhaps none more so than those given to making sweeping generalisations.

Edited January 1 by The Voice of Reason

[Bobbie Bobster]

2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

In fact let’s make it easy and say a large number of people are grade A twats, perhaps none more so than those given to making sweeping generalisations.

Is it complete, absolute lack of self-awareness, or high-level parody?  You decide.

Edited January 1 by Bobbie Bobster

[CrazyDave]

Whatever the ins and outs of this deaL, it seems to be having a positive impact at on utds performances as they are still undefeated in 2024.