Derek Flint Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 7 hours ago, paswt said: There was no need for the police to attend , it was single rider incident , if another rider had been involved then the police would attend . No police visited "Casey's" after the 2 fatalities until the next day . 7 hours ago, Max Power said: It seems to depend on who is in charge on the day, they don’t seem to have a written policy. Single rider incidents never required police attendance until the roads open and still don’t, unless they feel like it? 7 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: Two single rider incidents I dealt with over the last 4 years (one fatal, other nearly) - both involved the police. If there is a sudden or violent death, then a police officer will attend and act as Coroner's officer. It's an absolute duty. There was also clear policy on what inquiries would be required depending on the circumstances which emanated from direction by the Coroner. We have to appreciate the information coming from a racing fatality scene can be imprecise. I'm unaware of what was passed to Race Control from Sulby but from that, a decision will have been made and recorded as to why the police response team needed to be deployed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizo Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Max Power said: Well I do know a bit more than you may think. You should have told the inquiry then. Or more than likely you are talking shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Gizo said: You should have told the inquiry then. Or more than likely you are talking shit. Ok, have it your way. Be an idiot! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizo Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 10 hours ago, Max Power said: Ok, have it your way. Be an idiot! How so? You have basically said everything in that inquiry is a sham, Jefferies family would probably like to know the truth, but it appears a failed Marshall knows it all but isn’t prepared to say so. Furthermore you have sullied all your heroes reputations by saying they are liars. I’m not the one being an idiot. Jeez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Gizo said: How so? You have basically said everything in that inquiry is a sham, Jefferies family would probably like to know the truth, but it appears a failed Marshall knows it all but isn’t prepared to say so. Furthermore you have sullied all your heroes reputations by saying they are liars. I’m not the one being an idiot. Jeez. i read mistaken, i didn't read lied, but i may have missed it, could you point me to the post that claimed lied please ? Edited July 13 by WTF 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 12 hours ago, Gizo said: You should have told the inquiry then. Or more than likely you are talking shit. It’s more than likely that you are making a fool of yourself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 On 7/11/2024 at 9:28 PM, Derek Flint said: Along with others I contributed to change as things progressed, wherever I could. An example was a researched paper which contributed to the withdrawal of police officers from the circuit. I also convened the review of emergency response in the Paddock and environs. You? Wherever risk prevails the question is 'how can we do better?' I'm not the one calling others amateurs. Removing police officers from the circuit is hardly a milestone in terms of safety. Granted the amateurs who know what they are doing probably do a better job of looking after things around the course but if moving a few coppers from the course to sitting in their cars in some quiet spot waiting for the roads to open floats your boat then good luck to you. Well done for reviewing emergency response in the glorified campsite that is the paddock though, nice little job for you. Meanwhile the TT will continue to develop now you've gone, as it did before you arrived. Thanks for your input though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 4 hours ago, Gizo said: How so? You have basically said everything in that inquiry is a sham, Jefferies family would probably like to know the truth, but it appears a failed Marshall knows it all but isn’t prepared to say so. Furthermore you have sullied all your heroes reputations by saying they are liars. I’m not the one being an idiot. Jeez. Failed marshal? As I said, I know more than you think, I did tell you some of what I know but you would rather disbelieve me. I didn’t call anyone a liar. I’m not prepared to say how I know or everything I know so tough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barlow Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 (edited) On 7/12/2024 at 2:52 PM, La Colombe said: I don't know, but if I had to guess, I'd say that he duffed you up when you were kids and you've been psychologically damaged ever since. I dunno, that may or may not be the case. Maybe in such a scenario it is not the bully, the duffer upper, who is psychologically damaged, but who knows. But in such a hypothetical scenario, when the self-styled tough guy/bully boy/duffer upper continues his ways into adulthood, maybe duff up the occasional policeman or whatver, and then later on in life cries they are not quite as tough as they liked to display, simply because there is a bit of compo calling, then it's a bit iffy, innit. Edited July 13 by Barlow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 4 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said: I'm not the one calling others amateurs. Removing police officers from the circuit is hardly a milestone in terms of safety. Granted the amateurs who know what they are doing probably do a better job of looking after things around the course but if moving a few coppers from the course to sitting in their cars in some quiet spot waiting for the roads to open floats your boat then good luck to you. Well done for reviewing emergency response in the glorified campsite that is the paddock though, nice little job for you. Meanwhile the TT will continue to develop now you've gone, as it did before you arrived. Thanks for your input though. I haven't called anyone amateurs either. But police officers were not trained marshals and had no place there if the event was to 'professionalise'- which it has. The Grandstand and paddock was another area that would have been a reputational catastrophe in the event of an adverse incident. The review helped that and made it a safer place. One of those jobs that needed doing and which are difficult to confront at times. TT continues to evolve. It did before any of the people involved arrived, and it will continue to do after they've gone. Quite why you've tried to personalise that I'm not clear on? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gizo Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 6 hours ago, Max Power said: Failed marshal? As I said, I know more than you think, I did tell you some of what I know but you would rather disbelieve me. I didn’t call anyone a liar. I’m not prepared to say how I know or everything I know so tough. You said oil wasn’t involved. Oil was involved, all your heroes including m Guinness said oil was involved, the Marshall acknowledged oil was there. And here you are saying it wasn’t, so (a) your heroes are liars or (b) failed Marshall is a liar. But when deaths in the TT are brushed under the carpet I see why you lot will never find or want to find the truth, in case the whole stack of cards come crashing down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 14 hours ago, joebean said: It’s more than likely that you are making a fool of yourself. No change there then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 6 hours ago, Derek Flint said: But police officers were not trained marshals and had no place there if the event was to 'professionalise'- which it has. ....but surely, it is our expectation that the Police will be on hand to lend their expertise? Even if that has to be gained through similar training that the Marshals receive??? I can't see why Police had to be withdrawn other than to remove them from culpability??? A police man in Sulby could have been on the scene far quicker than one from the Grandstand??? I don't know what the motivation is here DF, perhaps you can explain??? A Pheasant??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebean Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 5 hours ago, Kopek said: ....but surely, it is our expectation that the Police will be on hand to lend their expertise? Even if that has to be gained through similar training that the Marshals receive??? I can't see why Police had to be withdrawn other than to remove them from culpability??? A police man in Sulby could have been on the scene far quicker than one from the Grandstand??? I don't know what the motivation is here DF, perhaps you can explain??? A Pheasant??? Withdrawing police from the circuit caused very few difficulties, as it turned out. A temporary issue was supervising crossing points, but that just needed a bit of adjustment from marshals and I don’t suppose that marshals now even consider it. Police are police and marshals are marshals and there wasn’t any need to divert police from policing duties. As has been said, the TT evolves and different people have made their own impact on it and safety procedures. That will happen until a decision is made, eventually, that the event has run its course. I’m always amazed at the passions that are aroused by any proposed changes. It must be a defensive reaction from enthusiasts who tend to see any change as a threat. I suspect that in itself is a sub-conscious recognition that racing on the TT course is somewhat anachronistic in an age where risk and fatality are generally viewed very differently. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Flint Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 9 hours ago, Kopek said: ....but surely, it is our expectation that the Police will be on hand to lend their expertise? Even if that has to be gained through similar training that the Marshals receive??? I can't see why Police had to be withdrawn other than to remove them from culpability??? A police man in Sulby could have been on the scene far quicker than one from the Grandstand??? I don't know what the motivation is here DF, perhaps you can explain??? A Pheasant??? Why would you train up police as Marshals? It's a volunteer job. Compelling someone to do it brings with it a whole load of liabilities in terms of health and safety too. It was the wrong use of a very expensive resource and the withdrawal has saved many hundreds of thousands of pounds. @joebean sums it up well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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