Roger Ram Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, Garteth T said: The TT may have a cultural importance etc to the Island but the point I was responding to was your statement that "I think generally the impact of the TT on businesses is very positive." My view is that away from tourism/hospitality it is probably mainly neutral at best and tour response does not address that. If you look at the major business sectors in the Isle of Man, insurance, finance, e-gaming I doubt that the TT has a "very positive" effect on the bottom line. You can make other arguments in favour of the TT but it being very positive for most businesses is not one but I am more that happy to read an explanation why my view is wrong and why the TT has a positive effect on the bottom line for most IoM business rather than just for a couple of sectors. You probably have a point. One way in which it is undoubtedly positive for businesses in those sectors, and others such as IT and engineering is recruitment. There are plenty of people living and working here only because they first visited and fell in love with the place because of the bikes. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 9 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: We'll probably end up with only 5 people on MF. Free speech comes with responsibility...and arseholes unfortunately. We fought wars to make it so. I just feel sorry for him. Must be a very sad individual that want to reinvent themselves using hidden IP addresses and making up user names just to annoy people. Sad lives, sad people. lets give them our sympathy and support 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said: I'm not saying we should accept it, the opposite really. Just by interacting with such people we are to some extent accepting them, by acknowledging they are there. They're the online equivalent of someone going round a pub trying to pick fights with everyone, at least online it's easier and less dangerous to ignore them. And just wait till the mods, those online bouncers, throw them out and delete all their content. It's worse than that even. At least in the pub, fairly quickly they will encounter someone who will make them reconsider their attitude via the medium of pain and humiliation. They are like dogs that bark at each other through a glass door. But open it and the barking stops and they don't know what to do. People are awfully brave behind a keyboard and an avatar sat in their Mum's spare room. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 6 hours ago, Garteth T said: The TT may have a cultural importance etc to the Island but the point I was responding to was your statement that "I think generally the impact of the TT on businesses is very positive." My view is that away from tourism/hospitality it is probably mainly neutral at best and tour response does not address that. If you look at the major business sectors in the Isle of Man, insurance, finance, e-gaming I doubt that the TT has a "very positive" effect on the bottom line. You can make other arguments in favour of the TT but it being very positive for most businesses is not one but I am more that happy to read an explanation why my view is wrong and why the TT has a positive effect on the bottom line for most IoM business rather than just for a couple of sectors. It isn't just a couple of sectors though is it. Businesses that do well out of the TT are; Pubs Restaurants/ cafes Taxis Petrol stations Motorcycle repair shops Tyre repair garages Public transport Car hire Hotels Holiday cottages Retail outlets Supermarkets Telecom providers Radio Stations Carriers Ferry/ air services Construction Scaffolding Food wholesalers. Utility companies Engineering workshops Haulage contractors Security providers Sound Engineers Entertainment venues The list goes on......... It may not have a major effect on finance, insurance and e-gambling but then we've rearranged our entire tax system to suit those sectors and forgo millions in corporation tax as a result (rightly or wrongly), to give up an important part of our cultural identity just because they don't benefit from it financially would make no sense at all. Edited June 10 by A fool and his money..... 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 13 hours ago, Numbnuts said: There some interesting points you raise. I’m sorry but I find the level of abuse and language totally unacceptable . And more so as it seemingly aimed at whoever was on the site at the time. We all rant or make it clear where not happy but that was several steps to far. Call it naive if you like but sorry that language isn’t acceptable here or anywhere else. And no I haven’t experienced that level before on other sites. I understand your comments about just ignore and don’t respond . But sorry it shouldn’t ever be said in the first place... I agree with you about not generally seeing last night's level of trolling and abuse on other sites. For what I'd consider a mainstream site I think this place is pretty bad. But having said that, it's very much confined to what seems to be a very small number of posters (at most a handful if not just one) and although I find ranting idiots rather funny, it's also quite pitiful. I usually find that this site provides a pretty positive experience and actually think a lot of discussions can be quite informative unless (or until) they descend into name-calling. I've certainly either learned things I didn't know or come to appreciate other's points of view by taking part in threads on here. It can be very interesting at times 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Even Autosports magazine site comments have some 'fruity' posts and some defamatory ones! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lamb Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 8 minutes ago, Kopek said: Even Autosports magazine site comments have some 'fruity' posts and some defamatory ones! And you'd expect it to be awash with intellectual debate... 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garteth T Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said: It isn't just a couple of sectors though is it. Businesses that do well out of the TT are; Pubs Restaurants/ cafes Taxis Petrol stations Motorcycle repair shops Tyre repair garages Public transport Car hire Hotels Holiday cottages Retail outlets Supermarkets Telecom providers Radio Stations Carriers Ferry/ air services Construction Scaffolding Food wholesalers. Utility companies Engineering workshops Haulage contractors Security providers Sound Engineers Entertainment venues The list goes on......... It may not have a major effect on finance, insurance and e-gambling but then we've rearranged our entire tax system to suit those sectors and forgo millions in corporation tax as a result (rightly or wrongly), to give up an important part of our cultural identity just because they don't benefit from it financially would make no sense at all. Many of those types of businesses you list come from a couple of business sectors If you look at the IoM's national income statement by percentage, based on the last report I could find only the following 7 sectors contributed more than 5% to the National Income; Insurance, E-gaming, Professional Services, Construction, Finance & Business Services, Banking and Medical & Health. At no point have I suggested that cancelling the TT because major contributors to the Manx economy such as finance, e-gaming, insurance may not benefit from financially. I was merely responding to your post that seemed to suggest that the impact of the TT on most businesses was very positive and you seemed to struggle to identify many that would suffer just giving Marown TV as a possible example. I do not disagree that there may be other side benefits, which appears to be your main point in response to me questioning your statement which appeared to imply that the financial impact of the TT for most business was very positive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 2 minutes ago, Garteth T said: Many of those types of businesses you list come from a couple of business sectors If you look at the IoM's national income statement by percentage, based on the last report I could find only the following 7 sectors contributed more than 5% to the National Income; Insurance, E-gaming, Professional Services, Construction, Finance & Business Services, Banking and Medical & Health. At no point have I suggested that cancelling the TT because major contributors to the Manx economy such as finance, e-gaming, insurance may not benefit from financially. I was merely responding to your post that seemed to suggest that the impact of the TT on most businesses was very positive and you seemed to struggle to identify many that would suffer just giving Marown TV as a possible example. I do not disagree that there may be other side benefits, which appears to be your main point in response to me questioning your statement which appeared to imply that the financial impact of the TT for most business was very positive. That's fair enough. I was wrong to imply that you had suggested cancelling the TT for those reasons. I appreciate your point also, the island's biggest sectors in GNI terms may not be one of the many financial beneficiaries from the event, although RL360's long term sponsorship may suggest that there is some benefit? That said, I still do struggle to name many businesses that would suffer from the event. Even the sectors that you mentioned you acknowledge probably suffer no financial detriment from it either. I also still think it's fair to say that most businesses have a positive financial impact from the TT. Although the financial businesses you mentioned may be large and lucrative, I find it hard to believe they are not outnumbered by the numerous smaller more modest businesses in the sectors I have mentioned. Nor would the economy or the financial or e-gambling sectors survive without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ram Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 16 minutes ago, Garteth T said: Many of those types of businesses you list come from a couple of business sectors If you look at the IoM's national income statement by percentage, based on the last report I could find only the following 7 sectors contributed more than 5% to the National Income; Insurance, E-gaming, Professional Services, Construction, Finance & Business Services, Banking and Medical & Health. At no point have I suggested that cancelling the TT because major contributors to the Manx economy such as finance, e-gaming, insurance may not benefit from financially. I was merely responding to your post that seemed to suggest that the impact of the TT on most businesses was very positive and you seemed to struggle to identify many that would suffer just giving Marown TV as a possible example. I do not disagree that there may be other side benefits, which appears to be your main point in response to me questioning your statement which appeared to imply that the financial impact of the TT for most business was very positive. Those sectors may not benefit directly. Many of them elect to utilise the corporate hospitality around the circuit (at great expense) to bring clients and brokers etc to the island to be entertained. Others elect to spend tens of thousands sponsoring races and increasing their global reach. There are a huge number of indirect benefits to businesses and the island general. I post this as someone who closes his business for a week and has to give all staff the week off. As someone else posted above, the fact that all staff take the same week actually helps us as a business as it minimises times we are accommodating holidays in the rest of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ram Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 4 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: That's fair enough. I was wrong to imply that you had suggested cancelling the TT for those reasons. I appreciate your point also, the island's biggest sectors in GNI terms may not be one of the many financial beneficiaries from the event, although RL360's long term sponsorship may suggest that there is some benefit? That said, I still do struggle to name many businesses that would suffer from the event. Even the sectors that you mentioned you acknowledge probably suffer no financial detriment from it either. I also still think it's fair to say that most businesses have a positive financial impact from the TT. Although the financial businesses you mentioned may be large and lucrative, I find it hard to believe they are not outnumbered by the numerous smaller more modest businesses in the sectors I have mentioned. Nor would the economy or the financial or e-gambling sectors survive without them. Those financial businesses also benefit from the year round access to hotels, bars and restaurants that make the island a more attractive place for their staff to be which might not be sustainable without the income of TT and MGP. Take all the businesses that would fold without the bikes away from the island, and it becomes a much harder place to recruit or retain staff or entertain business visitors. Edited June 10 by Roger Ram 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 10 minutes ago, Roger Ram said: Those financial businesses also benefit from the year round access to hotels, bars and restaurants that make the island a more attractive place for their staff to be which might not be sustainable without the income of TT and MGP. Take all the businesses that would fold without the bikes away from the island, and it becomes a much harder place to recruit or retain staff or entertain business visitors. That's exactly what I've been saying for years, you don't have to like the TT or MGP to benefit from them. We all do in many ways, if there were something else which could attract 40-50k people here every year for a fortnight with a net cost so low, we would have done it. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercenary Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, Roger Ram said: Those financial businesses also benefit from the year round access to hotels, bars and restaurants that make the island a more attractive place for their staff to be which might not be sustainable without the income of TT and MGP. Take all the businesses that would fold without the bikes away from the island, and it becomes a much harder place to recruit or retain staff or entertain business visitors. Perhaps unpopular opinion but my view is the more 'dependent' a business is on TT trade the lower its overall quality of offerings, as what does well in TT (volume, fast, easy) is not necessarily what people are after the rest of the year. Sustainable season wide growth goes out of the window when there is the opportunity to 'cram them in' for 2 weeks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ram Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 4 minutes ago, Mercenary said: Perhaps unpopular opinion but my view is the more 'dependent' a business is on TT trade the lower its overall quality of offerings, as what does well in TT (volume, fast, easy) is not necessarily what people are after the rest of the year. Sustainable season wide growth goes out of the window when there is the opportunity to 'cram them in' for 2 weeks. Disagree. There are some awesome businesses here that due to the size of their market do ok in summer and chug along in winter (catering to the locals) They make decent money in TT and MGP which enables them to keep going. Without those events they would close. You are probably right that if you take those events away it would be survival of the fittest and some would survive. In that situation we would all be left with less places to go through the year and the island would be left unable to cater for any busy periods. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ram Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 8 minutes ago, Mercenary said: Perhaps unpopular opinion but my view is the more 'dependent' a business is on TT trade the lower its overall quality of offerings, as what does well in TT (volume, fast, easy) is not necessarily what people are after the rest of the year. Sustainable season wide growth goes out of the window when there is the opportunity to 'cram them in' for 2 weeks. Would you include the Steam Packet in that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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