Hairy Poppins Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 23 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: They're (Govt) just desperate to make cuts and wield the knife on anything but themselves, there's no thinking about anything else going on and it's all short term. However politicians here are terrified of upsetting the public, not only from a "seats" point of view. They fear unrest and public protest. They buckle every time. It's still to be partially funded by a Rates rise though so residents of the local patches will be stumping up more to keep it open. I'm not saying that closing the swimming pool was the right thing to do, but there are cuts that will have to happened somewhere. As an island we are living well beyond our means. Taking £100m+ from reverses each year cannot go on forever. It'll take a miracle to make them see that there needs to be cuts to CS headcount. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDave Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) All those asking for cuts in CS numbers. Can I ask if it’s based on actual experience and understanding of how the CS works, or a perception? For the record. I don’t know enough about what they all do and how a government department works to make an informed comment. Edited January 19 by CrazyDave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 hours ago, CrazyDave said: ts really not a significant consideration. It's significant in that the DEsc withheld information, bussing costs, that were indeed significant to the debate in Tynwald. The cost would be funds taken away from the DESC budget and that they would not countenance, hence the U-Turn!!! Which, did come after your post. It's not just the u turn but that the PR was at 5.31 pm on a Friday!. Burying embarrassing news ??? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, Hairy Poppins said: It'll take a miracle to make them see that there needs to be cuts to CS headcount. A good few years back now the Annual PS wage bill was £520M. Sweet Lord only knows what it is now, it could be nearer £700M. One thing is for sure, the CS will be the last thing the knife will be wielded on. They themselves will ensure that, as they know full well that politicians also fear PS unrest and also disturbing the block vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, Hairy Poppins said: I'm not saying that closing the swimming pool was the right thing to do, but there are cuts that will have to happened somewhere. As an island we are living well beyond our means. Taking £100m+ from reverses each year cannot go on forever. It'll take a miracle to make them see that there needs to be cuts to CS headcount. Plenty of cuts that can be made or bad decisions kicked to the curb. Douglas sea wall Manx development corporation Eary stane wind farm, cost is already over 2 million. Alfs property developer 100 million giveaway Daphnes 42 million pot of virtue signaling money 500k for alfs island plan nonsense, the pink book shows money assigned to slogans! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Poppins Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, cissolt said: Plenty of cuts that can be made or bad decisions kicked to the curb. Douglas sea wall Manx development corporation Eary stane wind farm, cost is already over 2 million. Alfs property developer 100 million giveaway Daphnes 42 million pot of virtue signaling money 500k for alfs island plan nonsense, the pink book shows money assigned to slogans! That would be a great start. I still think there would need to be more cuts. Personally I don't see where or how they will be made. Every time there is a plan to cut spending there's a petition or a lobby group pops up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majkul Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 This beautiful island is going to Hell in a handcart. And those running it all into the ground do not give a shite, because all they care about is how much money they can make while their snout is deep in the trough. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, CrazyDave said: All those asking for cuts in CS numbers. Can I ask if it’s based on actual experience and understanding of how the CS works, or a perception? For the record. I don’t know enough about what they all do and how a government department works to make an informed comment. Perhaps I can help you as an ex PS and one still with rels in there. Firstly, we need to distinguish between the PS in general and the CS. By PS I mean the hands on gang, the "bottom feeders", out in all weathers and who have borne the brunt of any "Public Sector Cuts", leaving both their numbers and services reduced. Now we need to look at the CS. This has grown exponentially in the last 15 years, huge increases in numbers, maybe in excess of 20%. It's been examined and found to be unsustainable. Mechanisms and criteria have been applied to reduce it and have been roundly ignored by it. Entities have been created which need further huge numbers, Cabinet Office for example. How did we ever do without it? Now we need to look at the T&Cs that it, itself works out and applies to its huge structure. In respect of that, the numbers required to staff sections and Depts by the self-produced book rather than the workload. Say, 10 when there's actually only enough work for 4 (or would be in the private sector). Then factor that the more people you have under you, the more rank and pay you are entitled to under those self-produced T&Cs. Ripe and fertile for the empires. When you've worked in there and seen it, then you understand it. Much of what is said on these boards may not come from that experience, true. But it doesn't mean that it's wide of the mark. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) There's a difference between the CS and the PS. The PS are the Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Police, Fire and Ambulance etc etc that have received considerable support from the public during the recent period of 'industrial unrest'! I'm not sure what support the CS has received!!! Over to your MHK??? Their email address is on the Govt site. edit..... As Non Believer says above. Edited January 19 by Kopek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDave Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Much of what is said on these boards may not come from that experience, true. But it doesn't mean that it's wide of the mark. I don’t say it was 3 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Say, 10 when there's actually only enough work for 4 (or would be in the private sector). Then factor that the more people you have under you, the more rank and pay you are entitled to under those self-produced T&Cs. Ripe and fertile for the empires. My gut feeling based on my limited exposure to the CS is that this is true. I have certainly sat in meeting where we have sent one or two people to be faced with seven or eight government employees and I have left wondering what they all do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 8 minutes ago, CrazyDave said: I don’t say it was My gut feeling based on my limited exposure to the CS is that this is true. I have certainly sat in meeting where we have sent one or two people to be faced with seven or eight government employees and I have left wondering what they all do. A quick look at the various department org charts show where the issues lie, too many HEO and above on silly money and often not managing anyone. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 15 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Much of what is said on these boards may not come from that experience, true. But it doesn't mean that it's wide of the mark. No but it also true that constant carping and repetition of complaints is not leading to a solution??? I've said before, it is not 'our' job to come up with solutions, that is why we elect MHKs! ....but while moaning and frothing may be good for our souls, it doesn't get the job done? Your MHKs e-mail is on the Govt site and in the 'phone book I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2112 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 If Minister Edge has capitulated and made a u turn, I can see other Ministers who make unpopular decisions, coming up against the same level of opposition, and no doubt they will cave in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDave Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, 2112 said: If Minister Edge has capitulated and made a u turn, I can see other Ministers who make unpopular decisions, coming up against the same level of opposition, and no doubt they will cave in. Exactly. Caving on a correct but unpopular decision is the exact opposite of what we need. Its pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 6 minutes ago, Kopek said: No but it also true that constant carping and repetition of complaints is not leading to a solution??? I've said before, it is not 'our' job to come up with solutions, that is why we elect MHKs! ....but while moaning and frothing may be good for our souls, it doesn't get the job done? Your MHKs e-mail is on the Govt site and in the 'phone book I think. Stu Peters was only recently on these boards defending the situation and giving (IMHO) a weak explanation of why it's the way it is. Politicians are not in control, regardless of what you might think. They are just led to believe that they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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