Banker Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Silos? We've been hearing about them since the beginning of the Bell term, they were supposed to have been addressed. When we're in times of plenty they're all the right man for the job, CMs, Ministers, MHKs. "Better to be wrestling with the problems of success than the problems of failure" as Donald Gelling spouted. Unfortunately, we now have the problems of failure to deal with. Who’s your choice then? What services would you cut to save money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Banker said: Who’s your choice then? What services would you cut to save money? We've been through this before but obviously the crayons were the wrong colour. A root and branch reform of Government numbers coupled with a new acceptance of where and what the Isle of Man is in reality. We embarked on an unsustainable road 20 years ago and have not yet accepted that circumstances changed, because the road was rewarding for political egos and it's politically challenging to admit that it's a blind alley. It may still be hard to do but the current trajectory is taking us to a far harder place IMHO. A £600M+ per year PS wage bill is not sustainable for a place of our shrinking means. Edited January 20 by Non-Believer Extra bit 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Poppins Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Lawrie Hooper's Liberal Vannin are cheerleading for Island residents to be put under even more financial pressure with the introduction of an 'all-island leisure rate' (would Fun Tax be a better name for it?). https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/lvp-calls-on-government-to-urgently-consider-all-island-leisure-rate/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 50 minutes ago, Banker said: Who’s your choice then? What services would you cut to save money? A start is to cut headcount across departments by natural wastage and redeployment. That is a bare minimum statement of intent. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9 hours ago, CrazyDave said: How about just reading the post? It was a question that was entirely related to the thread and the topic being discussed. Its not my problem if you skim read something and fill in some gaps that don’t exist! And it's not our problem if you post in riddles. If you'd added 3 words: Like in Sweden - we'd have had a fighting chance of knowing wtf you were on about. Elucidate, man! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 23 minutes ago, Hairy Poppins said: Lawrie Hooper's Liberal Vannin are cheerleading for Island residents to be put under even more financial pressure with the introduction of an 'all-island leisure rate' (would Fun Tax be a better name for it?). https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/lvp-calls-on-government-to-urgently-consider-all-island-leisure-rate/ And we see it yet again....the only instinct is to raise taxes. The one trick, self-preserving pony. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDave Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 minutes ago, woolley said: And it's not our problem if you post in riddles. If you'd added 3 words: Like in Sweden - we'd have had a fighting chance of knowing wtf you were on about. Elucidate, man! It was a post intended to provoke some clown to say that big governments are bad, at which point I could point out that actually the best countries in the world are often those with the biggest governments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, woolley said: A start is to cut headcount across departments by natural wastage and redeployment. That is a bare minimum statement of intent. Everyone says that but that’s not going to happen quickly, headcount freeze across all departments except front line health, police and teachers , ATC ie absolutely essential plus an enforced cap on salaries rises. Then an external body needs to review departments. Problem is that if you cut too many CS then tax take falls,possible impact on local economy with less spending, working population falls so not as easy as everyone thinks 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 5 minutes ago, woolley said: A start is to cut headcount across departments by natural wastage and redeployment. That is a bare minimum statement of intent. There's nowhere to redeploy them too though IMHO, we're already overstaffed in administration with any amount of fantasy, nice-to-have-when-there-was-money positions. Unless you downgrade them to manual positions but then the T&Cs forbid any cut in pay and terms so you've got to pay them the same. We have dug the world's deepest hole and we're still in it, excavating hard. One or two people are suggesting bigger shovels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 6 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: There's nowhere to redeploy them too though IMHO, we're already overstaffed in administration with any amount of fantasy, nice-to-have-when-there-was-money positions. Unless you downgrade them to manual positions but then the T&Cs forbid any cut in pay and terms so you've got to pay them the same. We have dug the world's deepest hole and we're still in it, excavating hard. One or two people are suggesting bigger shovels. There are always redeployment opportunities in administrative functions. At least 3% of staff will be retiring every year. Only recruit to replace 1% and redeploy for the other 2%. I'm trying to suggest ways of doing what we all know needs to be done with a minimum of pain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 10 minutes ago, Banker said: Problem is that if you cut too many CS then tax take falls,possible impact on local economy with less spending, working population falls so not as easy as everyone thinks Eh? You do know that the "tax take" is a small percentage of the salary being shelled out? I know it's not easy by the way, which is why I'm not advocating wholesale sackings, but we really have to start somewhere in EVERYONE'S interest, not least the government staff who expect their pension one day. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 minute ago, woolley said: There are always redeployment opportunities in administrative functions. At least 3% of staff will be retiring every year. Only recruit to replace 1% and redeploy for the other 2%. I'm trying to suggest ways of doing what we all know needs to be done with a minimum of pain. Would it be fast enough vs the drain on reserves and finances though? We might now be beyond the point where the humane minimum of pain is no longer an option. As posted previously, there's been a headcount cap in place for years that's been ignored/not enforced, somebody will have to get tough with that too. Simply endlessly raising taxes to try and keep the status quo is unsustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 2 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: Would it be fast enough vs the drain on reserves and finances though? We might now be beyond the point where the humane minimum of pain is no longer an option. Be better than head in the sand, arse in the air, and doing the precise opposite though, wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 9 minutes ago, woolley said: Be better than head in the sand, arse in the air, and doing the precise opposite though, wouldn't it? That's all the doctrine allows them to do though. Govt is still in the vestiges of Bell fantasy land, believing that it can grow its way out of this position. If another economic miracle comes our way it might be possible but until then the best option is to start grasping the reality nettle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoTail Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 So now we have a new fun tax. The budget in February will have some other extra/new tax shocks as well. Not looking good for the man on the Broadway omnibus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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