Closure of Southern Swimming Pool

[CrazyDave]

1 hour ago, Fred the shred said:

It would be impossible to teach a class of children in the sea and most people like the water a little warmer than sea temperatures.

We don’t need the sea.  We have the very expensive N S Sea

[CrazyDave]

11 minutes ago, Meoir Shee said:

I was up at Ramsey today in the cafe, seemed quite busy. If the quoted figures are true, £798k, how on earth does a swimming pool cost c£2,000 per day in subsidies?  I’m all for community facilities and accept they probably won’t break even, but over £2k per day?  On what?  Across the water in St Anne’s, the figure is £141k.

Fylde Council Approves Vital Subsidy to Sustain YMCA St Annes Swimming Pool

How much do you think it costs to keep the water warm?

[Meoir Shee]

6 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

How much do you think it costs to keep the water warm?

I don’t know, £2k per day?

[CrazyDave]

Just now, Meoir Shee said:

I don’t know, £2k per day?

Probably not, but I would imagine it’s hundreds of thousands a year just to heat the water and keep the chemicals right.

I am sure the info is out there somewhere 

[finlo]

30 minutes ago, Meoir Shee said:

I was up at Ramsey today in the cafe, seemed quite busy. If the quoted figures are true, £798k, how on earth does a swimming pool cost c£2,000 per day in subsidies?  I’m all for community facilities and accept they probably won’t break even, but over £2k per day?  On what?  Across the water in St Anne’s, the figure is £141k.

Fylde Council Approves Vital Subsidy to Sustain YMCA St Annes Swimming Pool

The world's most expensive gas, electricity and terms and conditions!

[cissolt]

22 hours ago, woolley said:

I note you make no comment about the continuous upward trajectory of the size of government over very many years. There is a long track record here. Presumably you think this is ok. You also cite as benefits tax/NI receipts and salary spend in the economy of pointless bureaucrats, but omit to do so for people actually providing a useful service at the pool. You post utterly contradictory nonsense.

Unfortunately he is part of the govt  gravy train and we know turkeys don't vote for xmas

[StCatherine]

My understanding from talking to someone who I think is fairly reliable about these things…

Ramsey is the highest drain to the tax payer but that includes the loan repayments as well as operating costs. For some reason government pay all of peels loan costs off directly. They can’t put a figure on NSC as its poor old Julie doesn’t have a break down of costs beyond the whole complex. As per most things on IOM there is no consistency aside from the ineffectiveness of the Rushen MHKs 

[Roger Mexico]

3 minutes ago, StCatherine said:

Ramsey is the highest drain to the tax payer but that includes the loan repayments as well as operating costs. For some reason government pay all of peels loan costs off directly. They can’t put a figure on NSC as its poor old Julie doesn’t have a break down of costs beyond the whole complex. 

That's pretty much what the Knight, Kavanagh and Page report I linked to earlier says:

The significant differences in the level of subvention provided to each pool. This is even more telling when the capital repayment costs are extracted from the funding which provides the following overview of operational subsidy (i.e. the subvention which goes to off-set the operational cost of the facility):

• Northern Pool – £436k
• Western Pool – £307k
• Southern Pool - £445k

Which is why I said I was being mischievous before when I quoted the unadjusted figures to tease the Ramseyites.  I'm not sure about the different ways of handling the capital loan charges, but it's possible.  One difference between Peel and Ramsey is that the latter has its cafe outsourced, while Western is in-house and apparently very profitable.  Which suggests someone is doing nicely out of the Ramsey one, but as ever it's difficult to tell because, as usual with the Manx government, even the most basic financial information isn't kept or analysed properly.

[Holte End]

When did the board  down tools in the south on the pool, the same time as the stopped redevelopment on the School, I get the feeling Mr Brown was in office when it all started. You get the feeling the southern board and MHK's  from about 2006  must have of thought, if they let the pool get so run down that Government wouldn't have any choice but to build them a new pool with the school. That is why the south haven't had any major capital work on the southern pool. 

[cissolt]

Some interesting figures on the report.   Southern pool has the highest management salaries and the highest, by quite some way, ni and pensions contributions.

Based on the gross income, I'd struggle to justify the massive subvention the northern pool receives in comparison with the other two.  Does having 2 Ramsey MHKs in comin skew the decision making?

[Omobono]

why can't they all  receive a  reasonable  subvention from Government , and the rest coming from the local authority rates  there are  5 different local authorities south of the fairy bridge , most of them collecting pennies compared with other areas , 

if they want facilities like pools on the doorstep  then it shouldn't be too difficult to find  a formula   to help pay for them ?

[woolley]

2 hours ago, Omobono said:

why can't they all  receive a  reasonable  subvention from Government , and the rest coming from the local authority rates  there are  5 different local authorities south of the fairy bridge , most of them collecting pennies compared with other areas , 

if they want facilities like pools on the doorstep  then it shouldn't be too difficult to find  a formula   to help pay for them ?

I'd go with that, so long as it seemed like a fair settlement.

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, Holte End said:

When did the board  down tools in the south on the pool, the same time as the stopped redevelopment on the School, I get the feeling Mr Brown was in office when it all started. You get the feeling the southern board and MHK's  from about 2006  must have of thought, if they let the pool get so run down that Government wouldn't have any choice but to build them a new pool with the school. That is why the south haven't had any major capital work on the southern pool. 

It's not really the Board's fault.  Again the  Knight, Kavanagh and Page report  explains:

• The pool has been in something of a hiatus in recent years over the potential replacement of Castle Rushen High School and whether a new community swimming pool will form part of this development.
• Added to this, King William’s College (KWC) has an aspiration to develop a 4 lane 50m pool on the school site as a replacement of its existing pool.
• As a result of the potential Castle Rushen High School development and the KWC proposal the centre has had minimal minor capital works investment over the last eight years, with none in the last five. During the last eight years the other two regional pools have received almost £250k each in minor capital works with the Southern Pool receiving almost £20k. This equates to a winding down of the facility and Government making a conscious decision not to invest into it

So it's refusal to invest by the Government that lies behind the current condition of the Pool.  Given the current financial state of KWC[1], it'll be a while before their Pool plan revives and IOMG are still dithering about what to do with the new school.

 

[1]  Of course, once the Southern Pool is closed, it might be decided to send the schools swimming business in the South to the current KWC pool

[Roger Mexico]

4 hours ago, Omobono said:

why can't they all  receive a  reasonable  subvention from Government , and the rest coming from the local authority rates  there are  5 different local authorities south of the fairy bridge , most of them collecting pennies compared with other areas , 

But in that case the Eastern authorities should be doing the same for their local pool, the NSC.

[Holte End]

1 hour ago, Roger Mexico said:

During the last eight years the other two regional pools have received almost £250k each in minor capital works with the Southern Pool receiving almost £20k. This equates to a winding down of the facility and Government making a conscious decision not to invest into it

But, it is not for Government to invest in the Pool , it is for the board to request for capital investment and clearly they haven't or if they had, you would certainly know about it. So the only conscious decision not to invest is  the boards. The MHK's have clearly been partisan with the the winding down of the facility over the years, all hoping for a new pool.