Kopek Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 ... but above Stu says he has not been pressured into Dept support and also points out that the old £11,000 extra pay for Dept work does not have sway now! Could be that support for a fellow Dept members' project may sway their support, just as it would in any work environment? In the old days mutual support was ''if you vote for my project, then I'll vote for yours'' .!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Passing Time Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 33 minutes ago, Stu Peters said: I’ve been a DOI member for about a year now and have NEVER been told what to vote or say. I can’t speak for others but expect they would similarly disabuse you of this bit of urban myth. In the past members got an uplift for serving in a department, but not now. Means none of us NEEDS the job and I believe are motivated by a higher desire to be useful and contribute. When do you plan on starting? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Stu Peters said: I’ve been a DOI member for about a year now and have NEVER been told what to vote or say. I can’t speak for others but expect they would similarly disabuse you of this bit of urban myth. Those who work in the media frequently proclaim "No one tells me what to say" but to quote Chomsky "I’m sure you believe everything you say. But what I’m saying is if you believed something different you wouldn’t be sitting where you’re sitting”. You seem to have carried on with old habits. And you must know that the convention is that Departmental Members have to support everything their Department puts forward in Keys or Tynwald and if they don't, they will be asked to resign or be sacked. You're supposed to have been working in current affairs for decades, you must be able to think of past examples. That hasn't changed As you say what has changed is that DMs no longer get an upgrade in pay related to their position. But all the other perks of being a DM are still there, together with the possibility of promotion. So there is still 'social' pressure to conform. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asitis Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 5 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Those who work in the media frequently proclaim "No one tells me what to say" but to quote Chomsky "I’m sure you believe everything you say. But what I’m saying is if you believed something different you wouldn’t be sitting where you’re sitting”. You seem to have carried on with old habits. And you must know that the convention is that Departmental Members have to support everything their Department puts forward in Keys or Tynwald and if they don't, they will be asked to resign or be sacked. You're supposed to have been working in current affairs for decades, you must be able to think of past examples. That hasn't changed As you say what has changed is that DMs no longer get an upgrade in pay related to their position. But all the other perks of being a DM are still there, together with the possibility of promotion. So there is still 'social' pressure to conform. Ask Juan Turner what happens when you oppose a ridiculous idea ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
display name Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 hours ago, Stu Peters said: Means none of us NEEDS the job and I believe are motivated by a higher desire to be useful and contribute. So a basic pay cut of approximately 30K a year wouldn't be a problem,collectively contributing that saving to something useful for the people of the island? Obviously due to being motivated by that higher desire to be of service 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 hours ago, display name said: So a basic pay cut of approximately 30K a year wouldn't be a problem,collectively contributing that saving to something useful for the people of the island? Obviously due to being motivated by that higher desire to be of service You've missed the point. Those elected or re-elected to the House of Keys after 1 July 2021[1] are on a new scheme of being paid where they don't get any extra on top of their £75,907 a year for being a DM. Stu was perfectly correct in that. But DMs still have to toe the line in how they vote and the other things that come with serving in a Department (including a feeling that you are 'doing your bit') means that some may be unwilling to lose position. [1] Which is obviously all of them. But half of LegCo (those elected in 2020) are still on the old pay scale, currently inaccessible on the Tynwald web page, so as to keep Bill Henderson in the style to which he has become accustomed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 (edited) Two questions -Who is responsible for our housing policy? Have we got a housing policy? Not just affordable housing or brownfield development but an overall housing policy for the island. Jersey has got a Housing Minister and a decent housing policy you can read. https://www.policy.je/papers/housing#:~:text=The age of eligibility for,and three children or more). Where is ours? Edited February 1 by Moghrey Mie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 13 hours ago, Roger Mexico said: Those who work in the media frequently proclaim "No one tells me what to say" but to quote Chomsky "I’m sure you believe everything you say. But what I’m saying is if you believed something different you wouldn’t be sitting where you’re sitting”. You seem to have carried on with old habits. And you must know that the convention is that Departmental Members have to support everything their Department puts forward in Keys or Tynwald and if they don't, they will be asked to resign or be sacked. You're supposed to have been working in current affairs for decades, you must be able to think of past examples. That hasn't changed As you say what has changed is that DMs no longer get an upgrade in pay related to their position. But all the other perks of being a DM are still there, together with the possibility of promotion. So there is still 'social' pressure to conform. There are few perquisites in being a departmental member, unless it feeds your ego or makes you feel you’re doing some good, and if you have a previously held position on anything you can recuse yourself from voting for it. The only conflict I’ve had is that as Chairman of IOMPO I speak highly in the annual report of their climate change aspirations even though I think it’s all a costly nonsense (a view the board and all of Tynwald is aware of). But I’m speaking in an official capacity then and respect the board decisions on this matter. I don’t think that’s hypocritical. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cissolt Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 36 minutes ago, Stu Peters said: There are few perquisites in being a departmental member, unless it feeds your ego or makes you feel you’re doing some good, and if you have a previously held position on anything you can recuse yourself from voting for it. The only conflict I’ve had is that as Chairman of IOMPO I speak highly in the annual report of their climate change aspirations even though I think it’s all a costly nonsense (a view the board and all of Tynwald is aware of). But I’m speaking in an official capacity then and respect the board decisions on this matter. I don’t think that’s hypocritical. Interesting point, did you object during the board meeting about the waste of money on climate change nonsense? Perhaps a caveat in the statement that this is the view of the board and not your view would make it seem less hypocritical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the shred Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Hilarious really when the Government is creating so much poverty with rent, rate, heat , road tax etc rises all commodities that we need. There is a great discrepancy between need and want that seems to be universally misunderstood. Most of the rate increases are down to in the greater part waste disposal which again is run by the Government . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twitch Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stu Peters said: There are few perquisites in being a departmental member, unless it feeds your ego or makes you feel you’re doing some good, and if you have a previously held position on anything you can recuse yourself from voting for it. The only conflict I’ve had is that as Chairman of IOMPO I speak highly in the annual report of their climate change aspirations even though I think it’s all a costly nonsense (a view the board and all of Tynwald is aware of). But I’m speaking in an official capacity then and respect the board decisions on this matter. I don’t think that’s hypocritical. Whatever happened to the fella who said this? "Scrutiny, not ‘screw you’! If elected I will not seek a departmental role. I believe we need more robust fully-independent scrutiny of an out-of-control executive and civil service." https://www.gov.im/media/1374163/3501_stu_peters_a5_4pp_manifesto_18aug21_proof2.pdf Edited February 1 by Twitch 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 (edited) And from this.....to this... Edited February 1 by Non-Believer Typo & screenshots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Peters Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 39 minutes ago, Twitch said: Whatever happened to the fella who said this? "Scrutiny, not ‘screw you’! If elected I will not seek a departmental role. I believe we need more robust fully-independent scrutiny of an out-of-control executive and civil service." https://www.gov.im/media/1374163/3501_stu_peters_a5_4pp_manifesto_18aug21_proof2.pdf As Ive pointed out n numerous occasions, my manifesto was produced two months before the election, during which I knocked on every door I could to see what people thought. Many of them said they were disappointed I wouldn’t be looking to work within government to influence matters, so I changed (at all the hustings I think) to the pledge that I’d not accept a position within the first 12 months. I stuck to that and only joined the OFT and later IOMPO. I don’t lie, but I am capable of a change of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted February 1 Author Share Posted February 1 38 minutes ago, Stu Peters said: As Ive pointed out n numerous occasions, my manifesto was produced two months before the election, during which I knocked on every door I could to see what people thought. Many of them said they were disappointed I wouldn’t be looking to work within government to influence matters, so I changed (at all the hustings I think) to the pledge that I’d not accept a position within the first 12 months. I stuck to that and only joined the OFT and later IOMPO. I don’t lie, but I am capable of a change of mind. Would you like to see IOM government having a POLICY on housing and somebody in charge of implementing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
display name Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 4 hours ago, Twitch said: Whatever happened to the fella who said this? "Scrutiny, not ‘screw you’! If elected I will not seek a departmental role. I believe we need more robust fully-independent scrutiny of an out-of-control executive and civil service." https://www.gov.im/media/1374163/3501_stu_peters_a5_4pp_manifesto_18aug21_proof2.pdf Easy answer to that?.it was mostly hot air and nonsense. Principles,if there ever were any,appear to have been compromised. Sorry,I mean minds were changed 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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