A Conspiracy Theory - or something else?

[TheTeapot]

3 minutes ago, alpha-acid said:

Why is it bonkers vaccine stops it, it is a serious disease

Sometimes man you come across as really dumb. It is bonkers that this many parents have not had their children vaccinated.

[Non-Believer]

They must have been listening to Courtenay....

[Roger Mexico]

15 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Sometimes man you come across as really dumb. It is bonkers that this many parents have not had their children vaccinated.

Or they will.  If you listen to the clip to Moore, he says that 23% of under 5s haven't been vaccinated.  But the first MMR isn't given till a child is 1 year old.  So 20% or so will be automatically unvaccinated anyway.  

The figures we actually need are (a) the percentage of children over 14 months (say) who have not yet received the first MMR vaccine and (ii) the percentage of children over 3 years 6 months (say) who have not yet received their second MMR shot (which he doesn't even mention but which is important).  Then we should have an idea of whether there is a problem or not. 

I'm not sure if Moore simply doesn't know what he is talking about (as he's Chief Nurse, you'd think he should) or if it's the usual British way of doing public health, which is "Feed them lots of scare stories to make them do what we want".  Which is exactly the sort of attitude that gives rise to conspiracy theories - even if what they want is the right thing.

[TheTeapot]

2 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

 

I'm not sure if Moore simply doesn't know what he is talking about (as he's Chief Nurse, you'd think he should) or if it's the usual British way of doing public health, which is "Feed them lots of scare stories to make them do what we want".  Which is exactly the sort of attitude that gives rise to conspiracy theories - even if what they want is the right thing.

Well this is a key point for sure. After the outright insanity of covid and the fear pushing and the really close to edge point of almost forcing people to get vaccinated for that - including people wanting health workers sacked for not getting it - its not a huge surprise that people do distrust. The heavy handed approach there is going to continue to have consequences for a long time. 

There is a definite rise in cases of measles in places where it shouldn't be around the world. Vaccines, used properly, are great. 

 

[TheTeapot]

Anyway, away from that lets get into the real conspiracy theory that's attracting the attention of the entire world right now - what's going on with Kate?

[alpha-acid]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

Sometimes man you come across as really dumb. It is bonkers that this many parents have not had their children vaccinated.

That is not what you were implying rather vice versa

[alpha-acid]

27 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

Anyway, away from that lets get into the real conspiracy theory that's attracting the attention of the entire world right now - what's going on with Kate?

You been trawling the internet that is all over sometimes you come over as really dumb

[La_Dolce_Vita]

On 3/1/2024 at 12:11 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

I think religion and conspiracy theories are two separate issues.

There is a kind of logic to religion and I can see why someone may choose to believe in some sort of God. Plus of course  religious beliefs are mainly benign ( there will be exceptions as always)

If someone chooses to believe in their God, I’m not going to suggest they have lost their marbles. But if someone tells me that vaccines are being used to kill off the human population that’s a different matter.

Of course in both cases nobody should force their opinions or beliefs on others.

I think what you're saying here is rather ignorant. Setting aside any logic, which isn't an important matter to consider, the important thing is whether the beliefs are true or not. If there is no good evidence for them then there isn't good reason to have them. The same is the case with religion.

And religious beliefs are harmful. I think it does harm to think things are true without good reason and to live in a society where that is thought to be ok.  If we have disrespect for poor thinking then it lets us cast a blind eye to all sorts that is thought and done for bad reasons.

If people can believe in a being that created everything without good evidence then it is really isn't much a jump to claim other attributes, such as what it wants and wants for us.  We all know the worst that religions can do. Some of the most far reaching are its general effects where people treat this life, to different extents, as somewhere to wipe their foot at before something better, which diminishes this one or it might result in 'believers' treating others less favourably on the basis of the poorly founded beliefs. 

The most important harm is that poor thinking when encouraged or thought benign allows it to permeate.  Poor thinking is more likely to lead to poor decisions and actions.

If someone says they belief in a God and they don't have anything to demonstrate why it exists or they have very poor evidence then we don't think they have lost their marbles but we recognise that they are being stupid in that one specific aspect of their thinking.

The same is the case with conspiracy theory stuff.  The claims and implications of that claim are extraordinary.  If someone has good evidence then that's great but the very fact of something being conspiracy and few hundred, or whatever, reckoning they have the truth seems absurd on face because if the evidence was so compelling then it wouldn't be the belief of a few hundred.

 

[TheTeapot]

3 minutes ago, alpha-acid said:

That is not what you were implying rather vice versa

What?

I wasn't implying anything, I was stating quite clearly that it is bonkers not to get your kids vaccinated with the mmr vaccine. I don't know how you could read my post any other way?

[alpha-acid]

2 minutes ago, TheTeapot said:

What?

I wasn't implying anything, I was stating quite clearly that it is bonkers not to get your kids vaccinated with the mmr vaccine. I don't know how you could read my post any other way?

After the clip you just said bonkers , you are not gifted in logic are you

Edited March 10 by alpha-acid

[TheTeapot]

Keep wearing your mask man.

[La_Dolce_Vita]

On 3/1/2024 at 7:03 PM, The Voice of Reason said:

Like I said there will be exceptions. Injustices are not missed but a lot are undertaken under the camouflage of religion, not religion per se

There has been an awful lot of good done in the name of religion, whatever you think. Conversely to what you say religion has also been responsible for a lot of man’s humanity to man.

The fact is that there is a great deal of fighting that has gone on and is still going on that is motivated by superstition.  You can't explain the animosity between many Indians, for example, as something other than religion. If religion didn't exist then those problems wouldnt be there.

And yes, much good has been done in the name of religion. Though first, let's recognise that up until recently most charitable people and organisations existed in a time where people were more religious and often had to be religious.  And Christian organisations often had the monopoly on having the finances to fund charitable work.

But there isn't anything in the way of good work that couldnt have been achieved without superstitions.  In any case, I don't think this is all that important because the worth of religion and beliefs shouldnt be measured on what is done in their name but whether they're true or not.

[Roger Mexico]

2 hours ago, TheTeapot said:

Anyway, away from that lets get into the real conspiracy theory that's attracting the attention of the entire world right now - what's going on with Kate?

Just when you thought this couldn't get any more bonkers:

The first official photograph of the Princess of Wales to be released after her abdominal surgery two months ago has been recalled by some of the world’s biggest picture agencies over claims it had been manipulated.

[...] After its release, the photo was recalled by photo agencies including Associated Press, Agence France-Presse and Reuters, which put out a “kill notice” to halt their distribution of the picture.

“At closer inspection, it appears that the source has manipulated the image,” the AP notice said. A spokesperson for AP told the Telegraph: “The photo shows an inconsistency in the alignment of Princess Charlotte’s left hand.”

I can't see anything wrong with it myself, but even if it was, so what?  I suspect these agencies put out tweaked photos all the time and unless the purpose is to distort or mislead, what's the problem?  And in any case it's off social media and they're just reporting that it appeared there.  And withdrawing something almost a day after publication without explanation is just weird: "Forget that thing I told you yesterday!".

Like so much in recent years, the whole Kate thing is a story of the mainstream media obsessing about something and then reporting all their wildest speculations and fantasies as somehow the fault of 'social media'.  

[The Voice of Reason]

10 hours ago, La_Dolce_Vita said:

I think what you're saying here is rather ignorant. Setting aside any logic, which isn't an important matter to consider, the important thing is whether the beliefs are true or not. If there is no good evidence for them then there isn't good reason to have them. The same is the case with religion.

And religious beliefs are harmful. I think it does harm to think things are true without good reason and to live in a society where that is thought to be ok.  If we have disrespect for poor thinking then it lets us cast a blind eye to all sorts that is thought and done for bad reasons.

If people can believe in a being that created everything without good evidence then it is really isn't much a jump to claim other attributes, such as what it wants and wants for us.  We all know the worst that religions can do. Some of the most far reaching are its general effects where people treat this life, to different extents, as somewhere to wipe their foot at before something better, which diminishes this one or it might result in 'believers' treating others less favourably on the basis of the poorly founded beliefs. 

The most important harm is that poor thinking when encouraged or thought benign allows it to permeate.  Poor thinking is more likely to lead to poor decisions and actions.

If someone says they belief in a God and they don't have anything to demonstrate why it exists or they have very poor evidence then we don't think they have lost their marbles but we recognise that they are being stupid in that one specific aspect of their thinking.

Well I err towards the opinion that there is some sort of universal being as the alternative doesn’t stack up in my eyes. If the universe was created by say a collision of two things, where did those things come from? If they came from other things where did those other things come from?etc. Anyway this has been visited many times. You think it’s “poor thinking” which is more likely to lead to less favorable decisions or actions.

So let’s say my opinion crystallizes into a belief that there is some sort of “God” or being.

Does that mean I’m going to start ( or join in with) wars, attack other people or treat them less favourably, or even try to get people to share my beliefs? No I can guarantee it won’t. It doesn’t even mean I’m going to attach myself to any particular religious group. I’ll just go about my regular  business.
You may think that I’m being stupid about this aspect of my thinking but that doesn’t mean I’m mad, bad and dangerous to know, exerting a malign influence on society.

People are perfectly entitled to hold the view that we should stop using fossil fuels (but some argue that is poor thinking). That’s fine, it’s when they don orange hi viz vests, attack paintings and disrupt traffic and sporting events etc  that problems occur.

Similarly healthy debates can be had between those who believe you can choose your gender and those who think you can’t ( and I don’t want to get into all that again) but when those debates spill over into hatred and aggression that’s not acceptable.

There are many other such areas in which people hold different beliefs 

Your presumably “ good thinking” leads you to believe there is no God type character but I don’t really see how you can have a problem with another person  having a mere belief in a universal being.

[The Voice of Reason]

11 hours ago, alpha-acid said:

That is not what you were implying rather vice versa

I think you misinterpreted what Teapot was saying.

What is  more bizarre is when he pointed this out to you you continued with your misinterpretation rather than rereading the post and graciously admitting that you were mistaken.