2112 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 CM Cannan on the NPM, saying he is determined that the island will have a referendum on this subject. What happens if the people vote against? Will the legislation be dead in the water? What I do envisage is lots of social media name calling and trying to discredit anyone who disagrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 19 minutes ago, WTF said: the same way they don't give you a syringe with a vaccine in it to administer yourself when you get home. Except they do sort of. I can't remember what vaccine it was exactly, but for some interesting exotic disease I needed. I got a prescription to pick it up and then was supposed to take it to the Doc to administer. It had a use by date of only a week or so and I couldn't get the Doc's appointment, so I just ended up giving it to myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thommo2010 Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 33 minutes ago, 2112 said: CM Cannan on the NPM, saying he is determined that the island will have a referendum on this subject. What happens if the people vote against? Will the legislation be dead in the water? What I do envisage is lots of social media name calling and trying to discredit anyone who disagrees. Alf Cannan won't care by the time it rolls around it will be the new governments issue 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 I can't see this getting past westminster or as far as Royal Assent. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, 2112 said: CM Cannan on the NPM, saying he is determined that the island will have a referendum on this subject. What happens if the people vote against? Will the legislation be dead in the water? What I do envisage is lots of social media name calling and trying to discredit anyone who disagrees. I don't think this is the right kind of issue for a referendum. My own position, is "yes, in theory, but I have concerns about how it will work in practice". Whether those concerns can be overcome is down to the detail of the proposal. I'm not a lawyer or a medic or a philosopher. I don't have the time or skillset to scrutinise the detail of this legislation to determine whether there are sufficient safeguards against pressuring patients to accept a quick way out. There will now be a lot of debate and campaigning ahead of the referendum and I suspect much of that will be appealing to the emotions, which won't address the practical concerns. And this is issue isn't a priority one for me, and we pay people lots to decide issues like this. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopek Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 I'm not sure what good a referendum would do. Surely it's up to the individual to use or not use the service? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lamb Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 hours ago, The Phantom said: Except they do sort of. I can't remember what vaccine it was exactly, but for some interesting exotic disease I needed. I got a prescription to pick it up and then was supposed to take it to the Doc to administer. It had a use by date of only a week or so and I couldn't get the Doc's appointment, so I just ended up giving it to myself. Just a little prick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Mexico Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 hours ago, 2112 said: CM Cannan on the NPM, saying he is determined that the island will have a referendum on this subject. What happens if the people vote against? Will the legislation be dead in the water? What I do envisage is lots of social media name calling and trying to discredit anyone who disagrees. It's just a classic move from the right-wing playbook: "Let's distract the plebs with some 'Culture War' stuff, so they will ignore the complete mess we are making of all the things we actually are in control of". Except being Cannan, it's an incompetent attempt at even that. Partly because we know that assisted dying has heavy general support in the UK (here's a large poll from two months showing 75% - 14% support) and the Isle of Man is unlikely to differ that much. And there's no evidence that there's much appetite for such a referendum except for from a tiny minority of attention-seeking, bossy religious types. But it's also true that the whole topic is particularly unsuitable for a referendum because most people's informed opinion of the topic isn't "Yes" or "No" but "It depends". Quite rightly, people want to know the details of how it would operate. So the only valid referendum would be one after the Bill was ready to be signed into action and all the associated secondary legislation had been written and published and all the necessary practical measures had been set up and made public. And even such a referendum would be vulnerable to the objection that it might have got a different result if any of these factors were altered slightly. So you could have years of tweaking followed by yet another referendum. Even given Tynwald's delight in trying to find a way to kick the can down the road rather than make a decision, I can't see it being popular. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 I quoted this document a while ago: https://consult.gov.im/cabinet-office/modernisation-of-the-island-s-electoral-system/supporting_documents/Phase 2 report by John Turner.pdf Section 9 discusses referendums - surely these comments should be addressed before a referendum is taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 9 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said: It's just a classic move from the right-wing playbook: "Let's distract the plebs with some 'Culture War' stuff, so they will ignore the complete mess we are making of all the things we actually are in control of". Doesn't that cover pretty much everything nowadays? Periods, Gaza, etc. Meanwhile what most people would agree is the most important matter at the moment, Govt expense and incompetence is pretty much ignored. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 We can only hope... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 I heard Cannan refer to it as 'assisted suicide' on Manx Radio this morning. That sort of loaded language is moral stupidity and not helpful to serious debate from the Island's Chief Minister, certainly if he wants a referendum. It ain't suicide Alf so don't be a numpty. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Kate Lord Brennan's idea of setting up totally separate 'Assisted Dying Service' run by a charity with no funds from DHSC and nobody employed by ManxCare taking part didn't get support. 9 For 15 against I kept getting an image of the Assisted Dying Service charity holding various fund-raising events and it just didn't seem right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two-lane Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Or having to put the sponsors name on the side of the coffin.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Neither the Island’s politicians, nor the officers who support them have the competence to be leading the way on something as complex and important as this. If ever there were a case for following another’s example, this is it Dont get me wrong, I’m all in favour of euthanasia tourism as a niche way of keeping the incinerator running, but “we” shouldn’t be devising the rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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