Developers are 'buying their way' out of building affordable housing

[Happier diner]

1 minute ago, CrazyDave said:

My experience of government tenders is that there is nothing wrong with the system.

I have won some and lost some.

There has never been anything wrong with the system since the financial regs were introduced and then updated. The FOI makes it even more robust as government can't hide anything. Not even an email.

Much more robust than any private sector system for tendering and awarding of work..

[A fool and his money.....]

32 minutes ago, Happier diner said:

There has never been anything wrong with the system since the financial regs were introduced and then updated. The FOI makes it even more robust as government can't hide anything. Not even an email.

Much more robust than any private sector system for tendering and awarding of work..

But in reality.........

[Gladys]

32 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

That was never proved, the ass covering machine that is the IOM government was working overtime on that one.

I can tell you (without any proof other than my word) that I have witnessed people in public off implying that such payments (not necessarily monetary) would be necessary to be successful in a tender process, there's even one case I can remember where it was explicitly asked for rather than implied.

The construction industry on the island relies on the government, there's no getting away from that, name me any decent sized firm who doesn't do a substantial amount of government work - you can't. 

Of course I can't name any large firm not awarded a government contract.  Why is that evidence of brown envelopes?  Perhaps more to do with having the ability and resource to do the contract?

You have no proof, you state that yourself, yet still believe there are shenanigans going on.  How about explaining some of your assertions with real examples, particularly of non-monetary payments, instead of the innuendo?  

[WTF]

2 minutes ago, Gladys said:

  Perhaps more to do with having the ability and resource to do the contract?

 

like the new nobles hospital then ??

[CrazyDave]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Of course I can't name any large firm not awarded a government contract.  Why is that evidence of brown envelopes?  Perhaps more to do with having the ability and resource to do the contract?

You have no proof, you state that yourself, yet still believe there are shenanigans going on.  How about explaining some of your assertions with real examples, particularly of non-monetary payments, instead of the innuendo?  

Because he can’t, because it’s all made up.

Maybe twenty years ago stuff like that happened, but as already stated I know first hand how the system works and how careful officers are to make sure everything is done by the book.

As Happier Diner said, there is absolutely nowhere for them to hide.  People can do an FOI and get copies of emails etc.

Some people will never trust government though and will never change.  Even when all the evidence says they are wrong

[Gladys]

2 minutes ago, WTF said:

like the new nobles hospital then ??

20 years ago? 

[A fool and his money.....]

11 minutes ago, Gladys said:

Of course I can't name any large firm not awarded a government contract.  Why is that evidence of brown envelopes?  Perhaps more to do with having the ability and resource to do the contract?

You have no proof, you state that yourself, yet still believe there are shenanigans going on.  How about explaining some of your assertions with real examples, particularly of non-monetary payments, instead of the innuendo?  

The Port Erin one was a real enough example. 

[A fool and his money.....]

7 minutes ago, CrazyDave said:

Because he can’t, because it’s all made up.

Maybe twenty years ago stuff like that happened, but as already stated I know first hand how the system works and how careful officers are to make sure everything is done by the book.

As Happier Diner said, there is absolutely nowhere for them to hide.  People can do an FOI and get copies of emails etc.

Some people will never trust government though and will never change.  Even when all the evidence says they are wrong

Do you work in construction?

[Gladys]

1 minute ago, CrazyDave said:

Because he can’t, because it’s all made up.

Maybe twenty years ago stuff like that happened, but as already stated I know first hand how the system works and how careful officers are to make sure everything is done by the book.

As Happier Diner said, there is absolutely nowhere for them to hide.  People can do an FOI and get copies of emails etc.

Some people will never trust government though and will never change.  Even when all the evidence says they are wrong

I think you have just identified the issue, trust.  Personally, I do not think there are the shenanigans that many allege going on now.  But it is for our politicians and senior CS to acknowledge and deal with that lack of trust, no matter if it is unfounded in fact, and plainly and openly deal with it.

It is no good MHKs saying everything is fine.  What they need to do is say there should be confidence in the government because X,Y and Z, and also admit when things go wrong.  Things do go wrong, but it is the inability to admit it quickly and then explain exactly what steps are put in place to prevent another debacle.   

Also, it is absolutely unacceptable for any elected member to say how difficult it is to change, without giving clear reasons why, and what they think can be done.

Confidence in government is at an all time low, in my experience. Don't blame the people, blame the inability of government to give clear and decisive leadership and openness. 

[Gladys]

6 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

The Port Erin one was a real enough example. 

But you haven't explained what happened. 

[A fool and his money.....]

Just now, Gladys said:

But you haven't explained what happened. 

I have, at length.

[Gladys]

4 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

I have, at length.

No, you haven't.   You have posted about stuff which you have admitted to to having no evidence of, and made oblique references to non-monetary payments ( a contradiction in terms in itself) without specifics.  

Edited March 3 by Gladys

[A fool and his money.....]

Another example. Government are required to get three quotes for any work over a certain amount. What they often do is ask whichever company they want to do the work to quote using three different manufacturers products. I've been on the receiving end of that one myself.

Another trick is to put a bare bones spec out to tender. When you ask specific technical questions they don't answer, ensuring that whoever they want to do the job is the only one that can tender accurately.

[CrazyDave]

1 minute ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Another example. Government are required to get three quotes for any work over a certain amount. What they often do is ask whichever company they want to do the work to quote using three different manufacturers products. I've been on the receiving end of that one myself.

Another trick is to put a bare bones spec out to tender. When you ask specific technical questions they don't answer, ensuring that whoever they want to do the job is the only one that can tender accurately.

Again, not my experience.

I regularly have questions answered and also see additions to tender documents that are clearly in response to other firms having asked for more details.

[A fool and his money.....]

3 minutes ago, Gladys said:

No, you haven't.   You have posted about stuff which you have admitted to to having no evidence of, and made oblique references to non-monetary payments ( a contradiction in terms in itself) without specifics.  

Page 2 fourth post from bottom, sorry I can't seem to copy and paste on this phone.