Happier diner Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 19 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said: Anyone who thinks the IOM government are above brown envelopes is a naive fool. It's been demonstrated many times. Bribary 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beelzebub3 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 17 hours ago, CrazyDave said: Yes I do. The services my business offers are used by lots of other firms across all sorts of industries and I have been involved in many goverment tenders here and in the UK. This is an anonymous forum, and giving any more detail than that would basically tell you exactly who I am. Belive me or not, o couldn’t give a toss. You are the one making stuff up here just because you don’t like government and can’t look at things objectively Hi Dave, with all your business acumen perhaps you could let us know of any government contract that came in on budget and on time, with your portfolio surely there must be hundreds of jobs you and your business have successfully tendered for and completed on time and budget and would certainly be a great advertisement for your business. If you could see your way to sending us a few examples of completed contracts would be suffice and show that the government procurement team are really on top of the game when it comes to contracts. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDave Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 minute ago, Beelzebub3 said: Hi Dave, with all your business acumen perhaps you could let us know of any government contract that came in on budget and on time, with your portfolio surely there must be hundreds of jobs you and your business have successfully tendered for and completed on time and budget and would certainly be a great advertisement for your business. If you could see your way to sending us a few examples of completed contracts would be suffice and show that the government procurement team are really on top of the game when it comes to contracts. I am not telling you where I work or work we have done. We are turning work away at the moment (have you tried getting decent staff on island) so no need to advertise thanks. There were plenty of examples of projects completed in budget within the extensive document released after the budget. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 2 hours ago, Happier diner said: Here's one Fraud? Is that fraud? I doubt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Beelzebub3 said: Hi Dave, with all your business acumen perhaps you could let us know of any government contract that came in on budget and on time, with your portfolio surely there must be hundreds of jobs you and your business have successfully tendered for and completed on time and budget and would certainly be a great advertisement for your business. If you could see your way to sending us a few examples of completed contracts would be suffice and show that the government procurement team are really on top of the game when it comes to contracts. He doesn't like to fire up his laptop on a Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDave Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 18 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: He doesn't like to fire up his laptop on a Monday. Don't talk nonsense. I offered to do so last night and prove you were talking out of your hoop, but you declined the offer. Wonder why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 20 minutes ago, CrazyDave said: Don't talk nonsense. I offered to do so last night and prove you were talking out of your hoop, but you declined the offer. Wonder why? I didn't decline any offer, go on then, post up a government contract that you've delivered on time and on budget. Only you can't because they don't exist. #fantasydave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTF Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 3 hours ago, Happier diner said: Bribary they just opened a new place in peel . edit: sorry, that was barbary . Edited March 4 by WTF 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, A fool and his money..... said: Is that fraud? I doubt it. You may doubt it, but you would be wrong. It would absolutely be fraud "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A fool and his money..... Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 19 minutes ago, Happier diner said: You may doubt it, but you would be wrong. It would absolutely be fraud "wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain" And it's wrongful or criminal because? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you it's immoral and certainly not in the best interests of the taxpayer. I think fraud is going a bit far though, all they are doing is interpreting government procurement regulations in a different way to perhaps what they were intended to achieve - although the longer I live the more I believe that loopholes such as this are very much designed into the rules to allow this sort of thing. I any case, I could pretty much guarantee if you went to the police with it they wouldn't want to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 54 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: I didn't decline any offer, go on then, post up a government contract that you've delivered on time and on budget. Only you can't because they don't exist. #fantasydave You might be mixing contracts with projects. They are similar but different. If you purchase something from a supplier or engage a contractor to do work then you are legally required to give a fair opportunity to anyone who has the skills to provide it. You have to form a contract to do this. For a small thing you might have a simple procurement contract (an order) Projects are larger things (complex) that would be made up of one or numerous contracts. Government will make hundreds of thousands of contracts per year. A contract might be as simple as buying a box of paperclips or getting someone to fix some roof tiles. I imagine such contracts always complete on time. I did some quick quote tenders for a client last year. I thought the process was excellent and very transparent. We didnt win them but there's the breaks. I didn't blame corruption or bribery like you are doing, i kinda knew we didn't have a chance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happier diner Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 20 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said: And it's wrongful or criminal because? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you it's immoral and certainly not in the best interests of the taxpayer. I think fraud is going a bit far though, all they are doing is interpreting government procurement regulations in a different way to perhaps what they were intended to achieve - although the longer I live the more I believe that loopholes such as this are very much designed into the rules to allow this sort of thing. I any case, I could pretty much guarantee if you went to the police with it they wouldn't want to know. I agree there is a line when something becomes a police matter and it would not apply to a situation where someone scores a bid, say on quality, higher than another. If someone quotes as three different entities and withholds the fact from the customer that's borderline fraud but perhaps would be more of a civil matter and also get them excluded from bidding again. If the officer knew they had done that but didn't declare it then that would be a sacking rather than police (unless he had received payment from the bidder) If there were brown envelopes the police would have a duty to investigate. That would be bribery which is a criminal offence. You said you knew there were brown envelopes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyDave Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Happier diner said: You might be mixing contracts with projects. They are similar but different. If you purchase something from a supplier or engage a contractor to do work then you are legally required to give a fair opportunity to anyone who has the skills to provide it. You have to form a contract to do this. For a small thing you might have a simple procurement contract (an order) Projects are larger things (complex) that would be made up of one or numerous contracts. Government will make hundreds of thousands of contracts per year. A contract might be as simple as buying a box of paperclips or getting someone to fix some roof tiles. I imagine such contracts always complete on time. I did some quick quote tenders for a client last year. I thought the process was excellent and very transparent. We didnt win them but there's the breaks. I didn't blame corruption or bribery like you are doing, i kinda knew we didn't have a chance This There are hundreds if not thousands of contracts in place at any given time, many of which are awarded through the portals. Loads of them are completed on budget. Loads of them would never even have the opportunity to go over budget because it might be for example printer maintenance, cleaning an office, providing support for some software. I would suggest that @A fool and his money.....is looking at this exclusively from a building perspective and failing to understand the realities of a government contract or tender. They aren’t all to build things, and very few are visible to the public or ever have any exposure in the press because they just happen quietly in the background. Edited March 4 by CrazyDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) The fact is that developers are trying to avoid building 25% affordable dwellings by giving commuted sums to local authorities. What is the target for the number of 'affordable dwellings' to be built during this administration? I can only find this reference in Alf's Island Plan. That's a plan within a plan but no numbers. 'Develop an action plan to ensure every resident has a safe and secure home which will include the bringing of vacant and derelict buildings back into use.' Indicator: +1,000 additional homes occupied Measurement method: Measured using Census information supplemented by additional measurement methods Edited March 4 by Moghrey Mie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Onchan Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, CrazyDave said: This There are hundreds if not thousands of contracts in place at any given time, many of which are awarded through the portals. Loads of them are completed on budget. Loads of them would never even have the opportunity to go over budget because it might be for example printer maintenance, cleaning an office, providing support for some software. I would suggest that @A fool and his money.....is looking at this exclusively from a building perspective and failing to understand the realities of a government contract or tender. They aren’t all to build things, and very few are visible to the public or ever have any exposure in the press because they just happen quietly in the background. They should all be available to view publicly and none of it should going on quietly in the background. That's the whole point of having procurement portal. Transparency. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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