Sick note culture

[english zloty]

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/mum-of-three-admits-ps140000-benefit-fraud-carried-out-over-almost-10-years-683075
 

by my maths at current rates of payment out of benefits that’s a cool 107 years

[Roger Mexico]

34 minutes ago, english zloty said:

https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/mum-of-three-admits-ps140000-benefit-fraud-carried-out-over-almost-10-years-683075
 

by my maths at current rates of payment out of benefits that’s a cool 107 years

Not quite.  According to that:

The benefit overpayment totalled £141,461.35 and covered a period of more than nine years between May 2013 and October 2022.

[...] The court heard that that the defendant had paid back £1,025 and was having £30 a week deducted from her benefits. She had also agreed to set up a standing order for a further payment of £25 a week.

Which I reckon comes to a mere 49.1 years (you may have missed the standing order).

More interesting is the final sentence: A proceeds of crime hearing will take place in June.  Which I can't remember from a benefits case before.

The really extraordinary thing is how long it took to notice that she was being supported by this guy.  They're supposed to have been together 13 years.

[CallMeCurious]

6 hours ago, Roger Mexico said:

Not quite.  According to that:

The benefit overpayment totalled £141,461.35 and covered a period of more than nine years between May 2013 and October 2022.

[...] The court heard that that the defendant had paid back £1,025 and was having £30 a week deducted from her benefits. She had also agreed to set up a standing order for a further payment of £25 a week.

Which I reckon comes to a mere 49.1 years (you may have missed the standing order).

More interesting is the final sentence: A proceeds of crime hearing will take place in June.  Which I can't remember from a benefits case before.

The really extraordinary thing is how long it took to notice that she was being supported by this guy.  They're supposed to have been together 13 years.

A suspended sentence of 18 months or two months for every year of fraud.

Presumably the amount owed will be attracting interest the same as if they had underpaid income taxes or VAT?  Especially if it will be paid back at a rate of £55 a week.

Or is it in effect an interest free loan at the taxpayers expense?

 

[A fool and his money.....]

On 4/19/2024 at 10:48 AM, 2112 said:

A lot of what you say applies here, and remember that ex MHK Chris Robertshaw tried to address this issue, but sadly made a complete dogs breakfast of things. Many who can’t work could work with the right support, encouragement, carrot and stick and incentives. 

To be fair, he'd have needed to get thousands of people off the sick to offset the waste of public money that was his two terms as an MHK. A truly horrible man.

[Whiskey]

Maybe if people weren’t having to wait for so long for appointments they’d get better more quickly. 

[PhotoMan]

The problem with these purges on people that are abusing the system is that the genuine cases always get caught up in the cross-fire.

A few years ago Government brought in a company, Dependability Ltd, at great expense to try and 'weed out the abusers'.  Although successful in a small number of cases, in their shambolic efforts they totally destroyed the lives of some genuine claimants who's only crime was to be ill.  I experienced the physical and mental abuse, the dishonesty and outright lies carried out by Dependability assessors and some MHK's.  All carried out at a time when I was really unwell and in no position to stick up for myself, let alone fight back.

Robertshaw started the witch-hunt but Eddie Teare was the worst culprit and driving force behind it when he was Treasury Minister.  He continually lied in Tynwald regarding the whole procedure of the assessments, of which I documented and showed to a few MHK's/MLC's.  Although a couple were sympathetic and questioned Eddie Teare in Tynwald, nothing was done and nobody held accountable, as usual.

I'm not saying these assessments are not needed or shouldn't be performed, but they should be performed by qualified health professionals that fully understand your illness, and treat you humanely and with respect.  More importantly, assessors must report on claimants health honestly.  If they are proved to have lied, which I proved on numerous occasions, then they should be prosecuted.  It's Fraud!  If I'd have lied at any point to gain Benefits I wasn't entitled to then Government wouldn't be shy in prosecuting me.   

[2112]

With the newly elected Labour Government, and this week, the release of a report, by Alan Milburn ex Labour Health Secretary, should be a wake up call. He advocates forcing the long term sick into work, saying that many are capable of some form of employment, being able to perform some tasks. 
 

As far as its implications for the IOM, remember the exercise carried out by Dependability, reviewing the cases of those classed as long term ‘sick’. Naturally this exercise failed, in part due to ineptitude, and fierce opposition. 
 

Does anyone think that if the Labour Government actually followed through on the recommendations of the Milburn Review, then IOMG may follow suit? 
 

Welfare Benefits and Claimants have come to the fore due to the amount of benefits paid by the exchequer, and the influx of uncontrolled immigration. The IOM has a skills (and unskilled labour shortage), hence the need to import labour. 

[Numbnuts]

On 4/27/2024 at 9:59 PM, PhotoMan said:

The problem with these purges on people that are abusing the system is that the genuine cases always get caught up in the cross-fire.

A few years ago Government brought in a company, Dependability Ltd, at great expense to try and 'weed out the abusers'.  Although successful in a small number of cases, in their shambolic efforts they totally destroyed the lives of some genuine claimants who's only crime was to be ill.  I experienced the physical and mental abuse, the dishonesty and outright lies carried out by Dependability assessors and some MHK's.  All carried out at a time when I was really unwell and in no position to stick up for myself, let alone fight back.

Robertshaw started the witch-hunt but Eddie Teare was the worst culprit and driving force behind it when he was Treasury Minister.  He continually lied in Tynwald regarding the whole procedure of the assessments, of which I documented and showed to a few MHK's/MLC's.  Although a couple were sympathetic and questioned Eddie Teare in Tynwald, nothing was done and nobody held accountable, as usual.

I'm not saying these assessments are not needed or shouldn't be performed, but they should be performed by qualified health professionals that fully understand your illness, and treat you humanely and with respect.  More importantly, assessors must report on claimants health honestly.  If they are proved to have lied, which I proved on numerous occasions, then they should be prosecuted.  It's Fraud!  If I'd have lied at any point to gain Benefits I wasn't entitled to then Government wouldn't be shy in prosecuting me.   

You forgot the role that cretin Henderson played in that appointment. Between him and the main sponsor , Teare , it brought so much pain and worry to many including me. I actually went to the social affairs committee to speak out against the totally flawed procedure. The fact Dependability got removed from the contract because they were using unqualified staff for the interviews says it all. Your point about agreeing with some sort of monitoring of claimants I too agreed totally and made that exact point at the hearing. But again as you say it has to be someone who totally understands the complexities of the ailment people are suffering from.  Good for you for fighting the corner. I fought too as I was suffering with a particular illness that little is known about but can leave me fatigued for weeks. 

Edited July 26 by Numbnuts

[Ringy Rose]

1 hour ago, 2112 said:

He advocates forcing the long term sick into work, saying that many are capable of some form of employment, being able to perform some tasks. 
 

As far as its implications for the IOM, remember the exercise carried out by Dependability, reviewing the cases of those classed as long term ‘sick’. Naturally this exercise failed, in part due to ineptitude, and fierce opposition. 

Milburn is a tit of the Alf Cannan mould.

There’s a serious conversation to be had as it doesn’t do people any good to be stuck at home all day doing nothing. But that serious conversation is never had, instead we get constant bollocks about how anyone who is long-term sick is lazy and skiving and how we should hit them harder with a big stick. Everyone works harder with a gun at their back for a bowl of rice a day.

A lot of people with long-term illnesses are capable of doing some work for some of the time, but it is usually variable. Good days and bad days. A good friend has ME, she’s perfectly capable of work for about 70% of the time but when she has a bad patch she literally can’t move for a week.

But- understandably- employers aren’t particularly keen on staff who will only be available for 70% of the time, and who will need to take a week off sick every time they have a flare up of a bad back or ME or depression or whatever. And they’re also understandably not all that keen on staff who will need an expensive desk and an expensive chair to be able to work.

 

[Numbnuts]

1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said:

Milburn is a tit of the Alf Cannan mould.

There’s a serious conversation to be had as it doesn’t do people any good to be stuck at home all day doing nothing. But that serious conversation is never had, instead we get constant bollocks about how anyone who is long-term sick is lazy and skiving and how we should hit them harder with a big stick. Everyone works harder with a gun at their back for a bowl of rice a day.

A lot of people with long-term illnesses are capable of doing some work for some of the time, but it is usually variable. Good days and bad days. A good friend has ME, she’s perfectly capable of work for about 70% of the time but when she has a bad patch she literally can’t move for a week.

But- understandably- employers aren’t particularly keen on staff who will only be available for 70% of the time, and who will need to take a week off sick every time they have a flare up of a bad back or ME or depression or whatever. And they’re also understandably not all that keen on staff who will need an expensive desk and an expensive chair to be able to work.

 

I too have suffered from ME which as you know is very variable with no clear pattern. The thoughts that anyone with long term illness is happy with their lot is just nonsense . I was receiving at the time £112 a week to live on with an additional small income support amount . Living alone it was so difficult to manage and survive and pay my bills and eat etc. I was helped massively by the permitted work scheme that the benefit department has in place. That and a friend who was willing to give me 9 hours a week to enable me to try and get back into the work place. It worked and also helped my mental state massively. Having always worked hard all my life not being able to work and the worry over finances really hurt my mental health. There’s no easy answer for many but there is options for some thankfully. Of course there’s some people seeing it as a free ride but for most they so don’t want to be on benefits . 

Edited July 26 by Numbnuts

[Kopek]

I liked Alan Milburn and would have supported him to be the Leader of the Labour party. Why he left I don't know, 'more time with his Family'?

His report will be much more nuanced than the headline. Comparison with Alf is cruel!

The real crime with benefit fraud is to continue to make the claims for a number of years when the problem should have been realised by a reasonably intelligent person? A not so astute person??? There should be more help.

[Manx Bean]

On 4/19/2024 at 1:14 PM, Anthony Ingham said:

Thanks

So £104 a week short term and £139 a week long term.

Thats hardly likely to make many people consider giving up work

It is if they also get their rent paid!

[TheTeapot]

I had a couple of months on the sick a while back. I have absolutely no idea how those on it long term can live. It's appalling.

[Harry Lamb]

On 4/19/2024 at 3:49 PM, Blade Runner said:

My wife is a teacher and she has never taken a day off ill unless she genuinely had a sore finger or thumb, 

Pick on another industry.

What is your involvement in the 2008 banking crash?

I would bet zero as you were only filling cash machines with notes out the back of a G4S van.

 

Or washing the van

[Harry Lamb]

6 hours ago, 2112 said:

With the newly elected Labour Government, and this week, the release of a report, by Alan Milburn ex Labour Health Secretary, should be a wake up call. He advocates forcing the long term sick into work, saying that many are capable of some form of employment, being able to perform some tasks. 
 

As far as its implications for the IOM, remember the exercise carried out by Dependability, reviewing the cases of those classed as long term ‘sick’. Naturally this exercise failed, in part due to ineptitude, and fierce opposition. 
 

Does anyone think that if the Labour Government actually followed through on the recommendations of the Milburn Review, then IOMG may follow suit? 
 

Welfare Benefits and Claimants have come to the fore due to the amount of benefits paid by the exchequer, and the influx of uncontrolled immigration. The IOM has a skills (and unskilled labour shortage), hence the need to import labour. 

Immigrants don't get benefits. They get a pittance while their cases are assessed (which can take years) and during that time they are not legally allowed to work, even though labour is desperately needed. If the regime around benefits for those with long term health conditions was supportive, and less punitive, costs could be reduced, self respect increased, and more skills available to employers. Instead the government has for years blamed foreigners, the sick and the poor and used them to deflect from incompetence and greed.