Hospitality Call to Arms!

[Dirty Buggane]

Just listening to Alf on radio all exscuses,covid,war,global slump blah blah blah and just coming through cost of living crisis ?. When the fuck did it end, my p.a. must of forgot to copy me in to the email.

Edited April 24 by Dirty Buggane

[WTF]

53 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said:

Just listening to Alf on radio all exscuses,covid,war,global slump blah blah blah and just coming through cost of living crisis ?. When the fuck did it end, my p.a. must of forgot to copy me in to the email.

who knew all those excuses were around 20 years ago , i must have missed them then.

[The Phantom]

14 hours ago, A fool and his money..... said:

The old VAT formula was nothing to do with the tax haven, so in actual fact it works about as well as it ever has, ie not very.

Or at least not very well for most people. Some people do extremely well out of it, most people, not so much.

The trouble with the tax haven thing is that it's largely unquantifiable. And where it is quantifiable (the tax cap for example) we don't bother quantifying it, because then we'd have to admit it was an epic fail.

As such, its importance to the island is a matter of opinion, often such opinions are formed from vested interests.

It's continuation, in political terms, is easy though. It takes little imagination, little courage, little leadership. You just continue to give rich companies and individuals, well, anything they ask for basically, and the money will continue to trickle in. If it's not paying enough, tax the plebs a bit more, cut public services, lay off a few workers. If they complain just tell them that tax dodging is all we've got - trot out the spuds and herring line, there's still enough money to pay our pensions, that's the main thing. We could even import a few thousand more people to tax, properly rip the character out of the place, that should do it.

 

11 hours ago, woolley said:

There has to be a reason to do business here. It's not the weather, it's not the low energy costs, it's purely financial, and that means low tax. I didn't come here to enjoy the tax haven. I came with barely enough money to start a business because I'd loved the place since I was a kid, but there aren't so many people in that category. There would not be public services to cut without the finance centre to pay for them, and I don't accept that taking a scalpel to the ridiculous government bureaucracy equates to cutting public services in any case. It's cutting waste.

 

 

67% of the Island's income is solely due to 'financial business' and the only reason the majority of this is here is due to the tax haven thing. 

[jackwhite]

2 hours ago, 2112 said:

Another day, another IOMG cave in. According to the NPM, Ministers ( Allinson and Johnston) are to meet with the LVA. Another fine performance from CM Cannan. 

It’s a ‘cave in’ to meet with hospitality? 
 

What do you think they should do? Burying their heads in the sand isn’t the answer. 
 

They’ve been very defensive in the roadshows so far, from what I hear. 

[Andy Onchan]

1 hour ago, jackwhite said:

They’ve been very defensive in the roadshows so far, from what I hear. 

No option, as they're a one trick pony.

[Fred the shred]

And they need to be the public will not be happy if the hospitality business get preferential treatment.   Everyone is suffering and the notion of changing the VAT is ludicrous even if it were possible just how is the lost VAT income going to be replaced?      The public are totally convinced, with good reason, if this was to happen not one penny would be knocked off the ridiculous prices that some outlets are charging for food.   They need to up their game and start giving their customers some decent deals and then ,perhaps, people will start eating out again.

[woolley]

1 hour ago, The Phantom said:

 

67% of the Island's income is solely due to 'financial business' and the only reason the majority of this is here is due to the tax haven thing. 

Of course, and the vast majority of the rest rides on the back of those sectors to serve them and their employees with their day to day needs and be funded by them. I've been involved in a number of business startups. None of them were in the finance sector, but we were under no illusions at all that we were independent of it for our survival. The revenue deriving from all of this funds the government too and pays for the public services and benefits it provides.

It amuses me when people decry it. There's nothing else, folks. It's like we're flying along in an aeroplane and we decide that the passengers should be treated better so we stop paying for the fuel. Crazy.

[2112]

1 hour ago, jackwhite said:

It’s a ‘cave in’ to meet with hospitality? 
 

What do you think they should do? Burying their heads in the sand isn’t the answer. 
 

They’ve been very defensive in the roadshows so far, from what I hear. 

CM Cannan and Co have been resolute in their approach, especially with their comments about they can’t help everyone. It’s taken a meeting of the LVA which was well publicised, followed by roadshows, and publicity on an almost daily basis of hospitality businesses closing. 
 

Yes, it’s good that they are meeting with the LVA, but unless there is plan or practical ideas , then it’s just spin and waffle. If hospitality get additional support, other businesses will cry out that they are suffering, and will want support. 

[Passing Time]

4 hours ago, 2112 said:

Another day, another IOMG cave in. According to the NPM, Ministers ( Allinson and Johnston) are to meet with the LVA. Another fine performance from CM Cannan. 

How is that a cave in? 

[Non-Believer]

6 hours ago, Dirty Buggane said:

Just listening to Alf on radio all exscuses,covid,war,global slump blah blah blah and just coming through cost of living crisis ?. When the fuck did it end, my p.a. must of forgot to copy me in to the email.

I think it's just over two years now since Treasury Minister Ashford told us that we were in for a tough 12 months....

[Derek Flint]

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2024-04-24/manx-businesses-say-hospitality-sector-is-in-crisis-due-to-rising-costs

 

Made the 6pm ITV NW news.

Not a great look

Edited April 24 by Derek Flint

[A fool and his money.....]

8 hours ago, The Phantom said:

 

67% of the Island's income is solely due to 'financial business' and the only reason the majority of this is here is due to the tax haven thing. 

Never trust a statistic that you haven't made up yourself. 

What is that percentage based on? Turnover? Tax take? Public services paid for? Without context it's meaningless.

As you rightly identify, what ever that 67% is of, a majority are here for the tax haven thing. Most of the industry pay no corporation tax, their highest rolling employees pay a top rate of 22% income tax, it wouldn't matter if 150% of our economy was financial services, while they're basically choosing how much tax to pay, which isn't enough to provide public services, then it needs a rethink.

One thing financial services does provide is employment, although even that's a moot point at the moment as the government is busy throwing thousands at people to move here to take up employment, with the same low tax rates - the ones that aren't enough to pay for public services.

It's a very blinkered approach and is clearly not sustainable. We need to address the elephant in the room and take some brave and necessary decisions around how we fund this place into the future.

[A fool and his money.....]

7 hours ago, woolley said:

 

It amuses me when people decry it. There's nothing else, folks. It's like we're flying along in an aeroplane and we decide that the passengers should be treated better so we stop paying for the fuel. Crazy.

You should become an MHK. Your lazy, unimaginative view of the world would fit right in.

We're well on the way to becoming an island of 100,000 busy fools. Our young people can't afford to live here, public services are going to hell in a handcart and everything else costs a fortune.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog. We need to rethink why we have an economy and what we want from our society. An industry needs to be more than something that stops us getting board between meals, it needs to provide us with a living too.

Edited April 24 by A fool and his money.....

[Andy Onchan]

26 minutes ago, A fool and his money..... said:

Never trust a statistic that you haven't made up yourself. 

What is that percentage based on? Turnover? Tax take? Public services paid for? Without context it's meaningless.

As you rightly identify, what ever that 67% is of, a majority are here for the tax haven thing. Most of the industry pay no corporation tax, their highest rolling employees pay a top rate of 22% income tax, it wouldn't matter if 150% of our economy was financial services, while they're basically choosing how much tax to pay, which isn't enough to provide public services, then it needs a rethink.

One thing financial services does provide is employment, although even that's a moot point at the moment as the government is busy throwing thousands at people to move here to take up employment, with the same low tax rates - the ones that aren't enough to pay for public services.

It's a very blinkered approach and is clearly not sustainable. We need to address the elephant in the room and take some brave and necessary decisions around how we fund this place into the future.

As I said earlier.... The government could have ameliorated all of this bullshit if they had up-to-date National Income data. It's in their power to make it happen but the usual CS Traa dy liooar has seemingly put paid to that. There was no need for the 2% tax jobby if their economic advisors were awake. 

[Ringy Rose]

Licensed premises didn’t reduce their prices for spirits last year when the standard shot size dropped from 28ml to 25ml. They kept the prices the same and just pocketed the 10%.

It would be the same with VAT. Anyone who claims that VAT reductions would be passed on to customers is either deluded or a liar. And the reduction in VAT income would have to be found from somewhere.