woolley Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 4 hours ago, P.K. said: Therefore my revised start date (after you dripped and moaned about the previous one...) of 22 June 2016, the day before the referendum, is the obvious and only relevant choice. So the data stands on it's own merits and with the cost of living crisis etc shouldn't really surprise anyone... No, it isn't, and no it doesn't, because the 22 June 2016 was a high on the graph prompted by speculation on a Remain win by speculators in the markets thinking they were onto a fast buck. It wasn't representative of ordinary times. As related, in Feb 13 as a full EU member, sterling stood lower against the euro than it does today, but as with every fact you don't like, you simply cock a deaf 'un. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 (edited) On 5/25/2024 at 10:56 PM, La Colombe said: Bring back National Service! Lol. Sunak appears to be trying to beat Theresa May's previously presumed unsurpassable high water mark for the most suicidal policy announcement during an election campaign. Edited June 1 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 2 hours ago, P.K. said: @hoopsaa What's with the "us" reference? Care to share? Well, I am a white, hard working council house tenant, who used to think the left had my best interests at heart. Unfortunately, the predominant rump of the left seems to despise me. The cultural elite constantly sneer at people like me - 'white van man'. We're stupid, we don't know what's in our best interests despite us living our lives and knowing what works for us, their much vaunted DEI shit never includes diversity of class, hell, we must be thick, we didn't even know that women can have penises! So argue the virtues, or otherwise, of brexit, but drop the sanctimonious bullshit. It turns a lot of people away before before the argument even starts. In the brexit campaign, when the fishermen - sorry, fisherpeople - went up the Thames, the idiot celebrities who came out on their boats, quaffing champagne and deriding the people who work in that industry - they did the remain vote an awful lot of harm, in my opinion. And that's without debating the rights and wrongs of that particular question. You get fed up with the snideness. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 6 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: Well, I am a white, hard working council house tenant, who used to think the left had my best interests at heart. Unfortunately, the predominant rump of the left seems to despise me. The cultural elite constantly sneer at people like me - 'white van man'. We're stupid, we don't know what's in our best interests despite us living our lives and knowing what works for us, their much vaunted DEI shit never includes diversity of class, hell, we must be thick, we didn't even know that women can have penises! So argue the virtues, or otherwise, of brexit, but drop the sanctimonious bullshit. It turns a lot of people away before before the argument even starts. In the brexit campaign, when the fishermen - sorry, fisherpeople - went up the Thames, the idiot celebrities who came out on their boats, quaffing champagne and deriding the people who work in that industry - they did the remain vote an awful lot of harm, in my opinion. And that's without debating the rights and wrongs of that particular question. You get fed up with the snideness. When I said "most people" I meant most people. It wasn't a euphemism for the working class. Nor was it even supposed to be derogatory. Most people don't have the time to understand every aspect of geopolitics relevant to their lives. That's why we elect politicians who (hopefully) have bothered to understand, and who (hopefully) have our best interests in mind. A mechanic wouldn't expect the average person to be able to bleed their own brakes, nor would they ask them to. Politicians shouldn't expect the average person to understand the intricacies of EU membership and to make decisions on it, nor should they ask them to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: When I said "most people" I meant most people. It wasn't a euphemism for the working class. Nor was it even supposed to be derogatory. Most people don't have the time to understand every aspect of geopolitics relevant to their lives. That's why we elect politicians who (hopefully) have bothered to understand, and who (hopefully) have our best interests in mind. A mechanic wouldn't expect the average person to be able to bleed their own brakes, nor would they ask them to. Politicians shouldn't expect the average person to understand the intricacies of EU membership and to make decisions on it, nor should they ask them to. If politicians are so good at their jobs, and in the uk we get more and more career politicians, why is everything so fucked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Just now, hoopsaa said: If politicians are so good at their jobs, and in the uk we get more and more career politicians, why is everything so fucked? Because unfortunately what our politicians are good at is lying to the public and then giving all the tax money to their mates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoopsaa Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 3 minutes ago, HeliX said: Because unfortunately what our politicians are good at is lying to the public and then giving all the tax money to their mates. OK, so why shouldn't we have a greater say in the decisions? You've basically said we should leave the big stuff to them, and then said that they only work in their own vested interests? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Just now, hoopsaa said: OK, so why shouldn't we have a greater say in the decisions? You've basically said we should leave the big stuff to them, and then said that they only work in their own vested interests? What would a greater say in the decisions look like? If you were to put much to the electorate, even the most politically-inclined of us would get fatigued from it. The current lot certainly only work for their own interests, but I think there are good politicians in this country, too. We're just failing to elect them at present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 52 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: Well, I am a white, hard working council house tenant, who used to think the left had my best interests at heart. You have a council house and the right would take that away from you, call you lazy and tell you to get a better paid job or stop spending your money on televisions and mobile phones. 52 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: their much vaunted DEI shit never includes diversity of class DEI does include socio-economic backgrounds but the right can't use that to make people angry or scared. They can scare people that a tiny percentage of the population by making people think that trans people are a threat. 52 minutes ago, hoopsaa said: In the brexit campaign, when the fishermen - sorry, fisherpeople - went up the Thames, the idiot celebrities who came out on their boats, quaffing champagne and deriding the people who work in that industry - they did the remain vote an awful lot of harm, in my opinion. And that's without debating the rights and wrongs of that particular question. How has Brexit worked our for UK Fishing? Plenty of happy British fish like Jacob Rees-Mogg claimed? How about British farmers? Are they enjoying competition from cheap meat from Australia and New Zealand? Most people aren't stupid but they don't have the time or energy to actually engage with politics. That's why we see three word slogans such as "Stop the boats" and "Building back better". They get a message over but fail to give any details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 1 hour ago, hoopsaa said: Well, I am a white, hard working council house tenant, who used to think the left had my best interests at heart. Unfortunately, the predominant rump of the left seems to despise me. The cultural elite constantly sneer at people like me - 'white van man'. We're stupid, we don't know what's in our best interests despite us living our lives and knowing what works for us, their much vaunted DEI shit never includes diversity of class, hell, we must be thick, we didn't even know that women can have penises! So argue the virtues, or otherwise, of brexit, but drop the sanctimonious bullshit. It turns a lot of people away before before the argument even starts. In the brexit campaign, when the fishermen - sorry, fisherpeople - went up the Thames, the idiot celebrities who came out on their boats, quaffing champagne and deriding the people who work in that industry - they did the remain vote an awful lot of harm, in my opinion. And that's without debating the rights and wrongs of that particular question. You get fed up with the snideness. @hoopsaa You're making a lot of assumptions about the folks you're communicating with on here. Based on what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 15 hours ago, HeliX said: No, I think it was both. And I would bet you every penny under the sun that most voters on both sides had very little understanding of the EU, or the implications of being in or out. Which is why it was a stupid referendum. During the pre referendum debates the issues surrounding EU membership were explored in some detail in the media. Factual information was freely available and both sides were given plenty of airtime to advance their arguments. By the date of the referendum voters on both sides were more educated about, and understood more about, the EU than at any other time . They were thus in a much better position than previously to make their own informed decision be that to Remain or Leave. ( Except of course you are going to repeat the old canard that the leave campaign duped the public by spreading misinformation and lies) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 14 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: During the pre referendum debates the issues surrounding EU membership were explored in some detail in the media. Factual information was freely available and both sides were given plenty of airtime to advance their arguments. By the date of the referendum voters on both sides were more educated about, and understood more about, the EU than at any other time . They were thus in a much better position than previously to make their own informed decision be that to Remain or Leave. ( Except of course you are going to repeat the old canard that the leave campaign duped the public by spreading misinformation and lies) How many people do you think bothered to read up on it? And if it was lots and they were well educated, why were they asking Google what the EU was the next morning? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: During the pre referendum debates the issues surrounding EU membership were explored in some detail in the media. Factual information was freely available and both sides were given plenty of airtime to advance their arguments. By the date of the referendum voters on both sides were more educated about, and understood more about, the EU than at any other time . They were thus in a much better position than previously to make their own informed decision be that to Remain or Leave. That may be the case but did people actually engage with any of the campaigns and information. Very few people are actually politically engaged and simply form their opinions based on newspapers or internet forums. We know that print media can be biased based on their owners preferences or editorial views. 2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: ( Except of course you are going to repeat the old canard that the leave campaign duped the public by spreading misinformation and lies) Well, it did and it broke electoral rules on spending. Don't forget the Cambridge Analytics scandal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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