woolley Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 1 minute ago, Cambon said: Monster Raving Looney Party for me. None of the current parties are worth wasting a vote on. Conservatives need to go. Self serving without imagination or care for anyone else. Labour haven’t even released a manifesto, and are denying things that are leaked. Lib Dem are ok at council level, but a waste of a vote at General Election. Greens……..Who? Reform . Again a waste. They should just merge with the Tories. I should want to vote Conservative. I believe in a meritocracy, I have run successful (and a couple of failing) businesses for many years. I believe in a hand up rather than a hand out. I hate government bureaucracy and waste, and think people know better than the government how to spend their own money. I mourn the civic pride there used to be in towns and cities. Archetypal Conservative voter then, but I never have been enthusiastic. The Tories, as ever, appear to be entitled twerps, but they don't even compensate us for that by their competence as they once might have done. Nowadays, they are a really bad advert for the higher reaches of private education. Cameron, Boris, Sunak and most of their cabinets are mediocre at best. I am also suspicious of capitalism given such free reign and of globalisation because it's a tool of internationally unregulated wealth and harms the weakest. No great fan of Starmer either, by the way. There's not a lot to choose from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 1 hour ago, Cambon said: Your guardian article is interesting but only tells half the story. To keep it brief, the £37B cash injection is incorrect. That was the value of the shareholding the government received for a loan of £212B (IIRC) split between the two banks, to be repaid over 5 years at 12.5% interest, at which point the government would consider allowing the banks to buy the government out. RBS accepted this, Lloyds didn’t and did a cash call from shareholders to prevent the government having controlling interest. In those negotiations, what the government kept quiet was the extent of debt, due to the ABN debacle a couple of years earlier. (Gordon Brown, whilst chancellor, had convinced RBS to buy part of ABN, but had not told them the extent of the debt. RBS was riding on the crest of a wave at the time and Brown thought they could handle it. However, that debt was the main reason RBS ran out of money, or more precisely credit. @Cambon you and @woolley seem to have completely lost sight of my original complaint observation. Which was how brexiteers try to camouflage the costs of their totally stupid and completely unnecessary brexit by claiming that with totally out of the blue global issues like the pandemic and the Russian invasion of Ukraine it's impossible to ascertain what the truth actually is. Here is a classic example of the genre: On 5/18/2024 at 7:29 AM, P.K. said: "I love being a pharmacist, but the UK’s drug shortage makes me want to give up – and Brexit makes it worse! Telling patients I can’t get their life-saving medication is awful. The government must act to prevent a real tragedy" https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/may/17/pharmacist-uk-drug-shortage-patient-medication Elicited the usual type of literally woolley response: On 5/18/2024 at 12:04 PM, woolley said: Inflation and medical shortages are international issues in the 2020s. UK inflation has been above some EU countries for most, though not all, of the time for decades, so there are many factors at work that predate Brexit. But the pharmacist specifically mentions brexit as a cause. And he would know! Plus, lets face it, only a complete moron would think that the UK could cut a better trade deal than the EU with it's massive customer base and financial clout. Which is why I set the timeline of my comparison of exchange rates for the day before the referendum. Because not even you two could possibly camouflage the damage caused by brexit amongst events that happened before the referendum. But it seems it didn't stop you trying... PS - I don't think Dr Who can travel in time either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 Just managed to get back on the election after a long detour and along comes @P.K. with another pile of the same repetitive tripe that's been debunked ad nauseam. But again, just for you: https://www.edqm.eu/en/edqm-initiatives-on-medicine-shortages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 15 minutes ago, woolley said: Just managed to get back on the election after a long detour and along comes @P.K. with another pile of the same repetitive tripe that's been debunked ad nauseam. But again, just for you: https://www.edqm.eu/en/edqm-initiatives-on-medicine-shortages Dear me. I'm not disputing there's a shortage and never have so why you think the above I can't even begin to imagine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 1 hour ago, woolley said: And others here? Green. A waste, but voting Labour after they skew right teaches them to skew right, and suddenly we don't have a mainstream left wing party anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 11 minutes ago, P.K. said: Dear me. I'm not disputing there's a shortage and never have so why you think the above I can't even begin to imagine... If you had ever invested in pharma and knew anything about the sector, you would realise that the NHS is the reason why international shortages are more acute in the UK than elsewhere. The NHS has the best deals in the world for drugs because it has a virtual monopoly in the UK drugs procurement market, and it can virtually dictate the prices. It pays much less for the same things than the US and EU do. So in times of shortage, if you are the supplier, you are going to send your product where it makes most money, and that is not the UK. Simple when you know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 24 minutes ago, HeliX said: Green. A waste, but voting Labour after they skew right teaches them to skew right, and suddenly we don't have a mainstream left wing party anymore. You couldn't call Corbyn and Momentum mainstream though. The worry with Labour is always the degree to which they are in hock to the unions. He who pays the piper and all that. If they win, it will be instructive to see how they deal with the BMA 35% pay claim. Hopefully they don't follow the Harold Wilson playbook from 1974 with the NUM and simply cave in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, P.K. said: @Cambon you and @woolley seem to have completely lost sight of my original complaint observation. Which is why I set the timeline of my comparison of exchange rates for the day before the referendum. Because not even you two could possibly camouflage the damage caused by brexit amongst events that happened before the referendum. But it seems it didn't stop you trying... ......nor succeeding by presenting the facts which, as ever, you ignored. Edited June 6 by woolley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 33 minutes ago, woolley said: If you had ever invested in pharma and knew anything about the sector, you would realise that the NHS is the reason why international shortages are more acute in the UK than elsewhere. The NHS has the best deals in the world for drugs because it has a virtual monopoly in the UK drugs procurement market, and it can virtually dictate the prices. It pays much less for the same things than the US and EU do. So in times of shortage, if you are the supplier, you are going to send your product where it makes most money, and that is not the UK. Simple when you know. As the pharmacist said in the Guardian piece: "One factor in this ongoing crisis is that the government insists on not paying properly for medicines. Suppliers would rather sell their medicines to other countries willing to pay more, and amid this global shortage that means we’re one of the last in line. "While it’s fair to say we would still experience issues with medicine supplies due to the global shortage of medicines, Brexit only makes issues worse, because the UK market is no longer part of the European trading bloc, and because of the effect of Brexit on the UK economy. As a country, we are in total denial." Now in business if you either don't know or ignore the voice from the coalface then you're headed for trouble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 15 minutes ago, woolley said: ......nor succeeding by presenting the facts which, as ever, you ignored. Come off it. Brexit is entirely new territory so anything that went before just cannot be relevant. This isn't rocket science... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 12 minutes ago, P.K. said: As the pharmacist said in the Guardian piece: "One factor in this ongoing crisis is that the government insists on not paying properly for medicines. Suppliers would rather sell their medicines to other countries willing to pay more, and amid this global shortage that means we’re one of the last in line. "While it’s fair to say we would still experience issues with medicine supplies due to the global shortage of medicines, Brexit only makes issues worse, because the UK market is no longer part of the European trading bloc, and because of the effect of Brexit on the UK economy. As a country, we are in total denial." Now in business if you either don't know or ignore the voice from the coalface then you're headed for trouble... So nothing to do with Brexit then. All about the government using the NHS to screw the best price from big pharma. Bully for them in times of plenty, but more difficult in a shortage when they make you pay in other ways. I know this sector better than some goon at the Guardian, PK. Please stop torturing yourself and get back to the election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 I would ideally vote lib dem or Greens, however, I would cast my vote to get the Tories out. That would mean voting Labour as I couldn't vote Reform or for any party to the right of the Conservatives. I would never vote Conservative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted June 6 Author Share Posted June 6 3 hours ago, woolley said: How about your vote? And others here? I'd vote for the weirdo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 3 hours ago, P.K. said: But the pharmacist specifically mentions brexit as a cause. And he would know! Well would he? In the few years post Brexit it was given as an excuse for poor service, non delivery, increased prices and all sorts of shit. I have personal experience of this nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 6 Share Posted June 6 2 hours ago, woolley said: You couldn't call Corbyn and Momentum mainstream though. The worry with Labour is always the degree to which they are in hock to the unions. He who pays the piper and all that. If they win, it will be instructive to see how they deal with the BMA 35% pay claim. Hopefully they don't follow the Harold Wilson playbook from 1974 with the NUM and simply cave in. There is rather a lot of ground available between Corbyn and Starmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.