The General Election in the United Kingdom

[The Voice of Reason]

41 minutes ago, HiVibes said:

This is the reality, they want to believe in things, rather than accept reality.  It's natural for old fat useless people to hold onto the belief that they not just a drain on society, so they look to shift blame to young people and immigrants. 

Well I’m an old fat, (quite) useless person and I don’t shift blame ( blame for what?) to young people and immigrants.

Some young people can be a bit irritating though. They themselves are often blaming the older generation (“ you've destroyed the world” etc)

[manxman1980]

3 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

They themselves are often blaming the older generation (“ you've destroyed the world” etc)

Well that is true.  It is the previous generations who have destroyed natural habitats, polluted the waters, polluted the air, polluted the land and built an economy based on consumerism, plastic and fossil fuels.

Sometimes, those generations actually pay attention and do something.  I would point to banning CFC's due to their impact on the ozone layer and it subsequently 'healing'. 

Unfortunately on a lot of the really big things nothing is happening.  Everyone just points the finger at the developing economies when it comes to climate change and engages in whataboutery.  Climate Change is happening, you can see it in the weather patterns and the number of "freak" weather events occurring.  Does it happen naturally?  Sure.  Is human activity making it worse?  Yes.

The above is not accusing you specifically but it is something the young have had no influence on (and by young I mean those under 20) and are going to have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Whilst I think on... One other fact about Climate Change.  It is going to drive mass migration of people who look to leave high risk areas and seek better conditions elsewhere.  If you think immigration is bad now just be prepared for what is coming.

[HeliX]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Some young people can be a bit irritating though. They themselves are often blaming the older generation (“ you've destroyed the world” etc)

Given the linear progression of time I'm excited to hear who you think is responsible for things that have happened in the past?

[thommo2010]

2 hours ago, RecklessAbandon said:

But people still need to vote, as not voting is essentially tacit support for the current regime.

And if you think the likes of Reform are about the "ordinary working person", I've got a bridge to sell you.

I didn't include reform as like a lot of the parties they have no chance of winning the only party winning would be Labour or conservative.

[RecklessAbandon]

3 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

I didn't include reform as like a lot of the parties they have no chance of winning the only party winning would be Labour or conservative.

The Conservatives are a non-starter in my opinion.  Those who feel the Cons are not "right" enough will vote Reform and those who feel the Cons were "too right" will go either Labour or third party vote.

It is Labour's election to lose.

[manxman1980]

20 minutes ago, thommo2010 said:

I didn't include reform as like a lot of the parties they have no chance of winning the only party winning would be Labour or conservative.

My hope would be that Labour will be better than the Conservatives and that may, just maybe, the electorate will finally wake up to scrapping first past the post and going to a form of proportional representation. 

Unless FPTP is scrapped then the UK is forever stuck with a two party system (albeit that one or the other may implode and be replaced by a new version).  

FPTP may actually be one area where parties on the right and left agree as in all likelihood we would see more Green Party MP's and some reform MP's.  Labour & Tories won't like the idea though as it reduces their 'power' and chances of forming a Government.  

[The Voice of Reason]

44 minutes ago, HeliX said:

Given the linear progression of time I'm excited to hear who you think is responsible for things that have happened in the past?

What sort of things?

Medical advances ( eg elimination of some diseases) the internet, e Mail, Live Aid, the fall of the Berlin Wall, technological  breakthroughs including phones, GPS systems, smoking ban ( if that’s your thing), abolition  of capital punishment, better animal welfare, decriminalisation of homosexuality, and much much more.

Those sort of things?

[Albert Tatlock]

35 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

My hope would be that Labour will be better than the Conservatives...

Can't see it. The UK is so indebted that to change things requires even more debt or tax rises. There's no magical money tree to solve the UK"s two and a half £trillion debt.

I have a feeling they are not going to increase NI, but that they will make an adjustment to the 44k ish threshold...not increasing taxes, but tinkering with words.

Seen it all before.

In fact I think things will get far worse, including major demands from the civil and public services unions.

People want changes, but the options to pay for them just ain't there.

[RecklessAbandon]

1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Can't see it. The UK is so indebted that to change things requires even more debt or tax rises. There's no magical money tree to solve the UK"s two and a half £trillion debt.

Strange how they managed to find £100 million to bribe the DUP.

Quote

People want changes, but the options to pay for them just ain't there.

You mean other than the blatantly obvious option of taxing the super wealthy and not allowing the incumbent government to give away massive handouts to their mates under the guise of PPE grants?

[P.K.]

2 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

FPTP may actually be one area where parties on the right and left agree as in all likelihood we would see more Green Party MP's and some reform MP's.  Labour & Tories won't like the idea though as it reduces their 'power' and chances of forming a Government.  

The tories hate the very idea of PR. Because coalitions tend to prevent extreme policies like brexit, photo ID to vote, the recent curbs on protest, the demonising of migrants and sending them to Rwanda and all the rest of their right wing nonsense.

So we definitely need it in the UK!

[RecklessAbandon]

Shock as Reform UK candidate says UK should have been neutral against Hitler (msn.com)

If it walks like a duck...

[woolley]

8 hours ago, manxman1980 said:

Well that is true.  It is the previous generations who have destroyed natural habitats, polluted the waters, polluted the air, polluted the land and built an economy based on consumerism, plastic and fossil fuels.

Sometimes, those generations actually pay attention and do something.  I would point to banning CFC's due to their impact on the ozone layer and it subsequently 'healing'. 

Unfortunately on a lot of the really big things nothing is happening.  Everyone just points the finger at the developing economies when it comes to climate change and engages in whataboutery.  Climate Change is happening, you can see it in the weather patterns and the number of "freak" weather events occurring.  Does it happen naturally?  Sure.  Is human activity making it worse?  Yes.

The above is not accusing you specifically but it is something the young have had no influence on (and by young I mean those under 20) and are going to have to live with for the rest of their lives.

Whilst I think on... One other fact about Climate Change.  It is going to drive mass migration of people who look to leave high risk areas and seek better conditions elsewhere.  If you think immigration is bad now just be prepared for what is coming.

It isn't so straightforward as boomer bastards have wrecked the planet. I'm just about a boomer. For the first half of my life at least, nobody knew there was a problem. It just wasn't a live issue, so what could we be expected to do about something we were unaware of? More recently, we were in the same position as the young are now. Lip service is paid by our leaders, but what can anybody practically do besides exercising our own restraint in the use of resources and recycling, which most responsible people of all ages do anyway.

As for your final paragraph, I think you are spot on, and what we have seen thus far is a mere prelude. Interesting times ahead, but again, what do we do about it? There is a palpable feeling of inertia. Of so many politicians caught in the headlights on multiple very difficult issues, with little clue how to proceed. It's no wonder the majority turn off from it all.

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, woolley said:

It isn't so straightforward as boomer bastards have wrecked the planet. I'm just about a boomer. For the first half of my life at least, nobody knew there was a problem. It just wasn't a live issue, so what could we be expected to do about something we were unaware of? More recently, we were in the same position as the young are now. Lip service is paid by our leaders, but what can anybody practically do besides exercising our own restraint in the use of resources and recycling, which most responsible people of all ages do anyway.

What the boomers and older Gen X could do us stop denying climate change and actually listen to the science. 

Unfortunately many are too hooked on petrochemical and will continue to see green initiatives as an attack on their freedom.  @Stu Peters would be a good example of this.

1 hour ago, woolley said:

As for your final paragraph, I think you are spot on, and what we have seen thus far is a mere prelude. Interesting times ahead, but again, what do we do about it? There is a palpable feeling of inertia. Of so many politicians caught in the headlights on multiple very difficult issues, with little clue how to proceed. It's no wonder the majority turn off from it all.

We should be voting for Politicians who take the environment seriously.  We should be investing in genuinely green companies and not in fossil fuel companies.

Stop thinking of what you can do as an individual and think about what could be done as a collective to deliver change.

[The Voice of Reason]

56 minutes ago, manxman1980 said:

 

Unfortunately many are too hooked on petrochemical and will continue to see green initiatives as an attack on their freedom.  @Stu Peters would be a good example of this.

We should be voting for Politicians who take the environment seriously.  We should be investing in genuinely green companies and not in fossil fuel companies.

Stop thinking of what you can do as an individual and think about what could be done as a collective to deliver change.

Perhaps you  guide us on which politicians  “ take the environment seriously”, or maybe those that don’t 

“ Hooked on petrochemicals” what does that mean?

I’m sorry but if you’re in support of a group of yobs wearing  hi viz orange jackets spraying paint over important artefacts , sporting arenas, weddings whatever and  putting peoples lives in danger, you are not going to garner much support.

Just present a cohesive argument, align yourselves with a political party that will accept you ( or start one yourself) and submit to the democratic process.

I am pretty much with Stu Peters on this. 

No doubt I wil be labelled a “gammon” or some such juvenile insult

[HeliX]

8 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

I’m sorry but if you’re in support of a group of yobs wearing  hi viz orange jackets spraying paint over important artefacts , sporting arenas, weddings whatever and  putting peoples lives in danger, you are not going to garner much support.

If you think that's bad, wait til you hear about the behaviour of oil companies...