HeliX Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 22 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Ah well, that’s OK then It's a lot more ok than rubble or rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 2 hours ago, The Phantom said: All of the figures that all of the parties are quoting for tax rises, savings, loophole closures are bullshit and based on guestimates from incomplete data. Considering the level of UK debt and falling short of services, I think it's pretty clear that taxes are going to have to go up not down. There is no other way to balance the books apart from massive cuts to govt and services, which lets face it, isn't going to happen. That is the biggest lie. Why? Tax receipt will be up considerably this year and next due to the 5.25% interest rate and large amount of tax to be paid on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 1 hour ago, P.K. said: Unfortunately Dave and Gideon's "austerity" measures have hollowed out a lot of UK public services and they also pushed others down to local authorities. Basically there's not a lot left to cut. Yet there are 25,000 more civil servants now than there were in 2010. Trust the civil service to know what's important and protect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 9 minutes ago, Cambon said: Why? Tax receipt will be up considerably this year and next due to the 5.25% interest rate and large amount of tax to be paid on that. And due to fiscal drag because allowances are frozen at least until 2028. Not sure how any of them keep their faces straight when they say no income tax rises. None of it's going to balance the books, though. Short of finding Saudi level reserves of hydrocarbons beneath Potters Bar, that ship sailed a very long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 17 minutes ago, Cambon said: Why? Tax receipt will be up considerably this year and next due to the 5.25% interest rate and large amount of tax to be paid on that. Quite likely, but that's not going to put a dent in the £2.7 Trillion national debt and already failing Public Services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 4 minutes ago, The Phantom said: Quite likely, but that's not going to put a dent in the £2.7 Trillion national debt and already failing Public Services. Is national debt really an issue? The public are all used to hearing how the Government has to manage finances and budget in the same way as a household or a business. That is not really true of countries though, whilst I am opposed to the idea of lumbering future generations with financial problems on top of the environmental ones touched on earlier, it is true that countries are not bound by the same timescales that we as individuals are nor do they have a limited earning period. Effectively a country could just keep servicing its debt over centuries through repayments, additional borrowing, refinancing etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 15 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Is national debt really an issue? The public are all used to hearing how the Government has to manage finances and budget in the same way as a household or a business. That is not really true of countries though, whilst I am opposed to the idea of lumbering future generations with financial problems on top of the environmental ones touched on earlier, it is true that countries are not bound by the same timescales that we as individuals are nor do they have a limited earning period. Effectively a country could just keep servicing its debt over centuries through repayments, additional borrowing, refinancing etc. Quite similar to casino banking, but without the intervention when things go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 3 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Is national debt really an issue? Effectively a country could just keep servicing its debt over centuries through repayments, additional borrowing, refinancing etc. Until no one else will lend to them, lenders call it in, or their Treasury Bills become a joke. As has happened in Argentina recently. The Govt may think they can service it, the Govt might be able to service it, but it is the perception of the lenders whether they think they can service it that really matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 4 hours ago, woolley said: And due to fiscal drag because allowances are frozen at least until 2028. Not sure how any of them keep their faces straight when they say no income tax rises. None of it's going to balance the books, though. Short of finding Saudi level reserves of hydrocarbons beneath Potters Bar, that ship sailed a very long time ago. It doesn’t have to balance the books though. All it has to do is offset part of the 2% cut in NI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 7 hours ago, manxman1980 said: Is national debt really an issue? The public are all used to hearing how the Government has to manage finances and budget in the same way as a household or a business. That is not really true of countries though, whilst I am opposed to the idea of lumbering future generations with financial problems on top of the environmental ones touched on earlier, it is true that countries are not bound by the same timescales that we as individuals are nor do they have a limited earning period. Effectively a country could just keep servicing its debt over centuries through repayments, additional borrowing, refinancing etc. Yes, but the debt keeps getting bigger as does the cost of servicing it, until that cost grows higher than your spend on some major public services. This is why governments bake a certain amount of inflation into the system of course, to reduce the value of their debt over time, but if the mountain starts to look unsustainable you can destabilise the currency, and investors won't buy your gilts at manageable interest rates, a la Liz Truss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 3 hours ago, Cambon said: It doesn’t have to balance the books though. All it has to do is offset part of the 2% cut in NI. I don't get that policy at all. Seems like a lunatic idea to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 17 hours ago, manxman1980 said: My view is that Farage was being openly racist because Sunak is a second generation immigrant and has brown skin. When he refers to "our history" and "our culture" what else could he be referring too? Farage now, as I stated earlier, claims that it is Sunak's class, wealth and privilege which means he does not understand it. Farage is once again engaged in populist politics and is happy to drop comments that are potentially inflammatory and that will embolden more extremists to take action (whether politically or through other means). Farage does not give a toss whether what he says is factual or makes any sense upon closer examination as he knows that "his people" will lap it up. It's notable that the totally awful Lee Anderson was too overtly racist even for the tory party but he's a shoe-in for Reform UK. I suspect he's the epitome of their ideal candidate... Farage and Tice are well aware of what factors got the Leave vote over the line in 2016. A poll taken just a few days before the vote showed the top three issues swaying Leave voters were: Sovereignty 12% The economy 18% Immigration 52% So Farage absolutely knew what he was doing with his dreadful "Breaking Point" poster of desperate people fleeing a war zone. Gauche and tasteless doesn't even get close but effective without a doubt. So expect a lot more of the same nonsense from Reform UK like Anderson's really asinine "Do You Want Your Country Back?" in the run-up to this election. The joke in all of this is they will make a big play on "immigrants" doing things like putting our public services under pressure like the NHS. Of course, their target audience simply doesn't realise and probably won't care that if all the "immigrants" disappeared overnight the NHS and Social Care would simply cease to function! After the referendum I thought that as a country the UK simply couldn't sink any lower. Well, I was wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 On 6/12/2024 at 11:53 AM, HeliX said: It's a lot more ok than rubble or rocks. Wet cement? Wouldn't want to get it in your eye. I don't think it's much 'more ok' than rubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 23 minutes ago, wrighty said: Wet cement? Wouldn't want to get it in your eye. I don't think it's much 'more ok' than rubble. There's absolutely nothing I want to get in my eye. But you can definitely kill someone with a rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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