The Voice of Reason Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, HeliX said: It's wholly irrelevant because being in or out has no bearing on whether we have bullfighting. It's outrageous that you're trying to claim it as a benefit of being out. Well leaving a union from those who indulge in barbaric practices does have some merit. Hardly outrageous. Your ECHR for example ( quite rightly) won’t accept those who still practice the death penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 41 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: So without the ECHR you reckon teachers in the UK would still be hitting children? Well culturally and legally in the UK it was acceptable for teachers to hit children so without that outside influence why would things have changed? It is still legal in England and Northern Ireland for parents to smack their children if it can be deemed a "reasonable punishment". The Government, as recently as 2023, refused to pass legislation to make that illegal. Scotland banned it in 2020 and Wales in 2022. Just thought it a useful comparison as opposed to bullfighting in Spain... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 It was the threat of ECHR holding the UK in breach as responsible High Contracting Party for the IoM that led to male/male sexual acts being decriminalised, likewise introduction of abortion. And of course the IoM was in the dock, and lost, over its use of cruel and unusual punishment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 4 hours ago, John Wright said: You really don’t understand sovereignty at all. The way you use it it’s as a last refuge for a charlatan. But then you support Brexit, apparently on sovereignty grounds, so no one should be surprised. Oh I understand sovereignty “100 ALAIN DE BENOIST Sovereignty and Political Authority On the international level, sovereignty means independence, i.e., non- interference by external powers in the internal affairs of another state” It’s not difficult. (Well maybe for some) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Oh I understand sovereignty “100 ALAIN DE BENOIST Sovereignty and Political Authority On the international level, sovereignty means independence, i.e., non- interference by external powers in the internal affairs of another state” It’s not difficult. (Well maybe for some) But by that definition neither the EU nor the ECHR 1. are external powers 2. interfered in the internal affairs of the UK. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 16 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: Well culturally and legally in the UK it was acceptable for teachers to hit children so without that outside influence why would things have changed? Well maybe with internal influences perhaps? Societal changes. See children up chimneys etc. To answer your question I am sure that without outside influence things would have changed. Do you seriously think that without the ECHR teachers in the UK would still be hitting children? Just a yes or no will suffice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 minutes ago, John Wright said: But by that definition neither the EU nor the ECHR 1. are external powers 2. interfered in the internal affairs of the UK. Eh? You really think so? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wright Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Just now, The Voice of Reason said: Eh? You really think so? Yes. Legally Practically Pragmatically 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, John Wright said: Yes. Legally Practically Pragmatically OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: Well maybe with internal influences perhaps? Societal changes. See children up chimneys etc. To answer your question I am sure that without outside influence things would have changed. Do you seriously think that without the ECHR teachers in the UK would still be hitting children? Just a yes or no will suffice. Again, doing something shit and stopping it eventually isn't a good argument against having a rational body stopping it now. But if it were, what about the things the Gov was actively trying to implement that the ECHR stopped? For example bulk spying on the population's communication? It's not like that was going to change the other way in a hurry, the Gov was trying to bring it in not just failing to get rid of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RecklessAbandon Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 10 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: OK This is hilarious. You were out of your depth getting into that thread and after getting utterly schooled, all you could come back with was "OK". I think deep down you don't believe that "sovereignty" BS anymore than Woolley does, its just that you are so deep down the performative hole that you can't admit now for fear of looking a wally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, RecklessAbandon said: This is hilarious. You were out of your depth getting into that thread and after getting utterly schooled, all you could come back with was "OK". I think deep down you don't believe that "sovereignty" BS anymore than Woolley does, its just that you are so deep down the performative hole that you can't admit now for fear of looking a wally. OK 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 14 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: Do you seriously think that without the ECHR teachers in the UK would still be hitting children? Just a yes or no will suffice. Would you like me to point you to the repeated calls from older generations that the younger generations are "out of control", "pretending be cats/dogs" or <<insert favourite criticism of the young here>> and that a good beating would do them the world of good? It is entirely feasible that capital punishment would still exist in the UK school system without outside influence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 32 minutes ago, manxman1980 said: It is entirely feasible that capital punishment would still exist in the UK school system without outside influence. Well I don’t know what sort of school you went to. I thought mine was a bit harsh, but blimey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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