Chinahand Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 I have to be honest this election has been a huge wake up call for me. If the results are anything like what the polls/national mood are indicating then I need to genuinely assess my political understandings. For Reform, a party with basically no policies, no track record & drawing on candidates too often shown to have deplorable views to come from no where to help in the evisceration of the Tories is genuinely sobering. Then there's having the Lib Dems of Ed "pimp myself for publicity" Davies with policies all based around jam tomorrow aspiring to equal the Tories with 40-60 seats. And then we have Keir Starmer's Labour Party being handed 10-15 years of dominant power in the country on a political programme so boring & managerial you have to question how could a man who can hardly inspire a cabbage be handed such political dominance. And there is basically no point discussing the Tories, they are cowed, bereft of ideas and running a presidential campaign around Sunak in which Sunak does not have the political strength, imagination, or resonance with the electorate to make any progress. All he's doing is showing how out of touch he is, enabling Farage's racist dog whistle and Reforms explicit rhetoric that politics needs people from somewhere rather than anywhere. This isn't an election of big ideas, or souring political ideals, it is uninspiring, clouded with the politics of envy, exclusion and extremism. Oh my ... it is just depressing especially as Putin and Xi Jinping attempt to write the obituaries of the liberal west. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 @Chinahand even if Labour are given a super majority at this election I do not see that extending to 10-15 years. It is much more likely that Labour will also implode when it comes to addressing the issues that have arisen from Brexit. Whilst they are steering clear of the subject at the moment once in power they cannot ignore trade agreements, the Norther Ireland border and a regulatory alignment with trading partners. Labour are just as divided as the Tory party are on these issues but they have not been tested yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 What do you want me to say, MM1980 ... It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future. I see no sign that any political party is going to make any efforts to re-join Europe and I'm sceptical that the issues can't be fudged through. Europe itself is going through a terrible period of disunity and there are still huge economic strains within the block which could very become a crisis for its governance. I voted remain and remain sceptical that being out of Europe is any panacea, but equally being in it also a compromised place to be with genuine risks of being pulled into a crisis to pay for the contradictions between Germanic and Mediterranean views of debt, productivity and balances of payments. I wouldn't want to try to do that in a grouping where there's a genuine possibility of Orban and Meloni being joined by Le Pen. I've always held the view that once we'd voted out we had to leave and go through an entire economic cycle before considering re-joining. We're not there yet and until I've seen how a post brexit EU manages an economic crisis I'm very doubtful the price they will demand for us to rejoin - Euro membership, full scale contribution etc - will be worth it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 9 minutes ago, Chinahand said: What do you want me to say, MM1980 ... It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future. I see no sign that any political party is going to make any efforts to re-join Europe and I'm sceptical that the issues can't be fudged through. Europe itself is going through a terrible period of disunity and there are still huge economic strains within the block which could very become a crisis for its governance. I voted remain and remain sceptical that being out of Europe is any panacea, but equally being in it also a compromised place to be with genuine risks of being pulled into a crisis to pay for the contradictions between Germanic and Mediterranean views of debt, productivity and balances of payments. I wouldn't want to try to do that in a grouping where there's a genuine possibility of Orban and Meloni being joined by Le Pen. I've always held the view that once we'd voted out we had to leave and go through an entire economic cycle before considering re-joining. We're not there yet and until I've seen how a post brexit EU manages an economic crisis I'm very doubtful the price they will demand for us to rejoin - Euro membership, full scale contribution etc - will be worth it. I have to agree. Whatever your position on Brexit, I don’t think there is any going back. Even if there were an appetite for the UK to rejoin the EU, the conditions they would dictate ( “ signing up for ever closer union”) etc would not be in the interest of the UK. As I have always advocated in this debate. Let’s work with the EU and achieve whatever is of mutual benefit without being hog tied to them. The same idea that the UK should work with any other non EU country, or association of countries, for whatever is best for both parties. And indeed for third party countries when it comes to issues like foreign aid. This is what the new found freedom gives the UK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 8 hours ago, Chinahand said: boring & managerial Fucking hell, bring that on after the chaotic shit of the last 14 years. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 @Chinahand You will not be surprised that in my view there is no rationale for rejoining the EU ever, for all of the reasons you cite and many more besides. We would have to be truly bat shit crazy to have gone through the divisive process to free ourselves, only to crawl back into our cage with our tail between our legs. As for being surprised at the state of the Tories, everything has its time, and all things will pass. For almost 200 years, the disappearance of the Whigs would have been unthinkable. Now, few will even recognise the name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Wow, you actually couldn't make this shit up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Hedley's an Old Testament Marxist gobshite and an unofficial spokesman for the hard left rail unions. When the son of the toolmaker gets into number 10, Hedley and his mates will be running the country again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 La Colombe likes putting up Xcreets accusing people of being thick or fascists. Spreading the unpleasant politics of name calling. The echo chambers of social media have a lot to answer for the coarsening of political debate. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Colombe Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Chinahand said: La Colombe likes putting up Xcreets accusing people of being thick or fascists. Spreading the unpleasant politics of name calling. The echo chambers of social media have a lot to answer for the coarsening of political debate. Tice and Oakeshott are thick fascists though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake me up Judy Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Not as thick as you though Helix. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinahand Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 16 minutes ago, HeliX said: Tice and Oakeshott are thick fascists though. What do you define as a fascist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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