The General Election in the United Kingdom

[La Colombe]

 

[La Colombe]

Arrested for being an illegal immigrant. Beautiful. 

[The Voice of Reason]

14 hours ago, woolley said:

Ah well. Only 10 more days of it to go.

Unfortunately not.

As we found out with Brexit those who don’t like the result will still  be banging on about it eight years later ( or at least until the next General Election)

[John Wright]

13 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Unfortunately not.

As we found out with Brexit those who don’t like the result will still  be banging on about it eight years later ( or at least until the next General Election)

That’s democracy for you.

[The Voice of Reason]

12 minutes ago, John Wright said:

That’s democracy for you.

Yes indeed. That is democracy in action.

Let’s say as is widely expected Labour wins the election. ( No bad thing in my eyes)

Then I go on social media, and harangue Labour voters

I  ask them ad infinitum what  sort of Labour Party they voted for. ( Because they surely could not  have voted Labour just because they wanted a Labour government, could they?)

I tell them repeatedly they were told untruths.

I go on and on about how gullible they all were.

I inform them, without a shred of evidence, that they are all racists.

I post about half a dozen puerile “ cartoons” a day purporting to show that all those who voted Labour are stupid and that the Labour Party hierarchy are all buffoons and liars.

And  I do all this for years after the event.

 

 

 

 

 

[John Wright]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes indeed. That is democracy in action.

Let’s say as is widely expected Labour wins the election. ( No bad thing in my eyes)

Then I go on social media, and harangue Labour voters

I  ask them ad infinitum what  sort of Labour Party they voted for. ( Because they surely could not  have voted Labour just because they wanted a Labour government, could they?)

I tell them repeatedly they were told untruths.

I go on and on about how gullible they all were.

I inform them, without a shred of evidence, that they are all racists.

I post about half a dozen puerile “ cartoons” a day purporting to show that all those who voted Labour are stupid and that the Labour Party hierarchy are all buffoons and liars.

And  I do all this for years after the event.

 

 

 

 

 

That’s politics. There were lots of Labour members/supporters doing it about Corbyn, there are lots who are doing it about Starmer, and post 4/7 there will be lots still doing it against Starmer

[woolley]

And while they're doing all of that they're not torching palaces and fomenting revolution. It's a good system.

[HeliX]

57 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Yes indeed. That is democracy in action.

Let’s say as is widely expected Labour wins the election. ( No bad thing in my eyes)

Then I go on social media, and harangue Labour voters

I  ask them ad infinitum what  sort of Labour Party they voted for. ( Because they surely could not  have voted Labour just because they wanted a Labour government, could they?)

I tell them repeatedly they were told untruths.

I go on and on about how gullible they all were.

I inform them, without a shred of evidence, that they are all racists.

I post about half a dozen puerile “ cartoons” a day purporting to show that all those who voted Labour are stupid and that the Labour Party hierarchy are all buffoons and liars.

And  I do all this for years after the event.

They should offer you another vote to change your mind after a few years if you're not happy.

[P.K.]

39 minutes ago, HeliX said:

They should offer you another vote to change your mind after a few years if you're not happy.

@The Voice of Reason

And there's the rub...

We can change our government every 5 years but not membership of the best trading bloc on the planet...

The reason I keep going on about the totally stupid and completely unnecessary brexit is because I know that as a country we can't really move on from it until those who foisted it on the rest of us admit they got it wrong.

Obviously I know that for some the damage caused by brexit that effects us all never even entered their thought processes around which way to vote.

I guess they heard a different drummer...

[The Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, P.K. said:

@The Voice of Reason

The reason I keep going on about the totally stupid and completely unnecessary brexit is because I know that as a country we can't really move on from it until those who foisted it on the rest of us admit they got it wrong.

 

OK let’s enter a strange parallel universe where Brexit was “ stupid and completely  unnecessary “

How are you going to get all the 17.4 million people ( the majority of those voting) who foisted it upon “ the rest of us”  to admit they got it wrong?

And if you could achieve such mass self flagellation how, and in what sense, could we really “ move on”? The UK would remain the in the same position.

Surely the best way to “move on” would be for the Remainers to accept the result of the referendum ( albeit reluctantly) and learn to put it behind them, for it is they who have opened this festering sore and won’t let it heal

[Declan]

3 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Unfortunately not.

As we found out with Brexit those who don’t like the result will still  be banging on about it eight years later ( or at least until the next General Election)

It’s like footy. Liverpool beat United 7-0 a couple of seasons ago and they still had the temerity to turn up the following season. The past doesn’t bind the future. 

[The Voice of Reason]

8 minutes ago, Declan said:

It’s like footy. Liverpool beat United 7-0 a couple of seasons ago and they still had the temerity to turn up the following season. The past doesn’t bind the future. 

It’s not like that though is it?

If your team is beaten fair and square you should have the good grace to accept it. 

It’s only if you’ve been cheated out of something ( think Maradona “ Hand of God”) that you have a legitimate grievance. Even then continually going on about it isn’t going to change the result.

And there is no date set for a Brexit rematch. It was never intended to be played out once ( or twice) a year. Maybe a one off boxing match would be a better analogy?

[wrighty]

1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said:

 

How are you going to get all the 17.4 million people ( the majority of those voting) who foisted it upon “ the rest of us”  to admit they got it wrong?

 

Given the age profiles of the brexiteers and the remainers, I think it’s a fair bet that enough of the 17.4m are now dead, more than on the remainer side, such that if the original votes were recounted and dead votes discounted you’d have a remain majority. 

[John Wright]

42 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

OK let’s enter a strange parallel universe where Brexit was “ stupid and completely  unnecessary “

How are you going to get all the 17.4 million people ( the majority of those voting) who foisted it upon “ the rest of us”  to admit they got it wrong?

And if you could achieve such mass self flagellation how, and in what sense, could we really “ move on”? The UK would remain the in the same position.

Surely the best way to “move on” would be for the Remainers to accept the result of the referendum ( albeit reluctantly) and learn to put it behind them, for it is they who have opened this festering sore and won’t let it heal

You really don’t understand democracy, at all, do you?

First, the festering sore was opened by the Brexiteers, after years of MSM ridiculing non existent EU regulations, then taken up by Farage, and given into by “call me Dave” to save his party, not for the good of the country.

Second, the vote was remain or leave, and was advisory only.

Third, the margin was small.

Fourth, no one, not even the Brexiteers, had any idea what Brexit would look like.

Fifth, in the political vacuum after Cameron’s resignation, the giving of notice under Article 51, and May’s maladroit general election, Brexiteers became emboldened to seek ever harder terms, and Remainers tried to use democratic process to get the terms they thought best. There was nothing undemocratic about the numerous cross resolutions, even suggestions of a second referendum once terms were agreed.

Sixth, the Brexiteers managed to present it as Remainers trying to thwart the will of the people, whilst they themselves were happy to thwart the constitution to get their way, at any cost. Hence the 2019 “Get it done” Johnson election.

The consequent treaty terms are neither good for the country in the round, nor for Brexiteers, many of whom want more, or Remainers, who want less.

Because Brexit got mixed up with immigration, something the UK had control of, and illegal immigration, ove which the UK had absolute control, and given what has happened to immigration since, both immigration and Brexit are toxic in the minds of politicians on all sides. Neither can be discussed or debated rationally. So, mainly, apart from a project fear and Rwanda, they aren’t mentioned or talked about.

Presumably immigration will sort itself out, during the coming parliament, will decouple from Brexit, and then there can be an exploration about how to smooth UK/EU trade, cooperation in science and education, and many other things. But it’s not unilateral. The EU has to want that as well.

[La Colombe]