The Voice of Reason Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 4 hours ago, wrighty said: Given the age profiles of the brexiteers and the remainers, I think it’s a fair bet that enough of the 17.4m are now dead, more than on the remainer side, such that if the original votes were recounted and dead votes discounted you’d have a remain majority. You may possibly be right. So in the 2016 referendum, should you have excluded from being allowed to vote those for whom the statistical probability was that they would be dead in 2024? That takes us down all sorts of avenues. Edited June 25 by The Voice of Reason Correction of misspelling of statistical 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) 4 hours ago, John Wright said: You really don’t understand democracy, at all, do you? Third, the margin was small. And I don’t understand democracy !! Edited June 25 by The Voice of Reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 (edited) Duplicate Edited June 25 by The Voice of Reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiVibes Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 1 hour ago, The Voice of Reason said: You may possibly be right. So in the 2016 referendum, should you have excluded from being allowed to vote those for whom the statistical probability was that they would be dead in 2024? That takes us down all sorts of avenues. Just one very good one, near dead people should have no say in a future that they will never see, it would appear from the current crop they are just plain spiteful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 8 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: You may possibly be right. So in the 2016 referendum, should you have excluded from being allowed to vote those for whom the statistical probability was that they would be dead in 2024? That takes us down all sorts of avenues. There is something in that, but it is extremely difficult. Hypothetically, if Nigel Farage had gone round various care homes ‘helping’ the dementia patients with their postal votes, would you be happy with the outcome that they helped determine? I do think some people should not be able to vote. We don’t allow children to vote. Should adults who lack capacity to determine their own medical treatment be allowed to? In the Brexit referendum specifically I think giving 14 and 15 year olds a vote would have been more valid than that. Could go further and weight votes according to age. If you’re of an age where you only have a 50/50 chance of seeing the next 5 years should your vote only count 50%? And before I’m accused of outrageous ageism etc this is exactly what insurance companies do when calculating annuity rates, making pension projections etc. Why not in elections? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeapot Posted June 26 Author Share Posted June 26 Strip votes at retirement - you've retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 13 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said: It’s not like that though is it? If your team is beaten fair and square you should have the good grace to accept it. It’s only if you’ve been cheated out of something ( think Maradona “ Hand of God”) that you have a legitimate grievance. Even then continually going on about it isn’t going to change the result. Now you're having a laugh! The UK version of democracy relies on those working within it to tell the truth at all times. Unfortunately step forward Farage, Gove and Johnson. A simple example I'm sure we all remember Bozo Johnson holding up a packaged kipper and telling a load of anti-EU lies about the packaging. He then went on to top-out his lying career by lying to the Monarch! After all, why should she miss out on his mendacity...? Plus for literally decades the UK right wing press in thrall to the agenda of the owner, which is to say pretty much all of it, were spouting the most appalling hairy sphericals about all things EU! Here is a website that lists a lot of them: https://inktank.fi/this-list-of-all-euromyths-printed-by-uk-media-proves-how-much-right-wing-press-lies/ Never mind "bendy bananas" there are some absolute corkers listed that you might remember: "Bagpipes – EU safety directives to ban playgrounds, trapeze artists and bagpipes, Aug 2005; EU to promote standardised Christmas trees, Nov 1992; Cornish clotted cream to be made in Brittany, Mar 1998; Cows, nappies – EU is forcing cows to wear nappies, Oct 2014" and so on. Take a browse through because if you have a sense of the ridiculous you won't be disappointed believe me! Now on the surface it's all very amusing but unfortunately the backstory is not. Folks in the UK buy a newspaper that panders to their prejudices. So the circulation figures of the Mail, the Express, the Sun and the Telegraph should be a cause for concern. Because those four appalling excuses for a "news" paper were the main culprits in spreading decades-worth of anti-EU propaganda at the behest of the owner and as we all know if you throw enough mud eventually some of it sticks. For me the whole brexit farrago demonstrated that a combination of unscrupulous newspaper owners and mendacious, self-serving politicians can sway public opinion enough to subvert our version of democracy to such an extent that folks will vote for something that is definitely not in their best interests... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 47 minutes ago, wrighty said: There is something in that, but it is extremely difficult. Hypothetically, if Nigel Farage had gone round various care homes ‘helping’ the dementia patients with their postal votes, would you be happy with the outcome that they helped determine? I do think some people should not be able to vote. We don’t allow children to vote. Should adults who lack capacity to determine their own medical treatment be allowed to? In the Brexit referendum specifically I think giving 14 and 15 year olds a vote would have been more valid than that. Could go further and weight votes according to age. If you’re of an age where you only have a 50/50 chance of seeing the next 5 years should your vote only count 50%? And before I’m accused of outrageous ageism etc this is exactly what insurance companies do when calculating annuity rates, making pension projections etc. Why not in elections? There is a degree of logic in all this. However there are too many variables to factor if voting is to be weighted? Who decides the degree of weighting? How mentally incapacitated do you have to be to be disqualified? On what issues do you lower the voting age and why? There will be all sorts of arguments on the above and more. Furthermore it would be an administrative nightmare. So I can’t see any departure from the principle of “ one man ( and woman) , one vote. Not half a vote or whatever. Besides which you are not only voting for yourself in such referendums, you are helping to shape the future society you want for your children and future generations after your demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sausages Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 I have just sent my postal vote for the constituency where I lived in England 20 years ago. I'm not sure that I agree with former residents having a vote but I wanted to try the system. It all worked very smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrighty Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 11 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said: I have just sent my postal vote for the constituency where I lived in England 20 years ago. I'm not sure that I agree with former residents having a vote but I wanted to try the system. It all worked very smoothly. You’ll get a tax return demand and a fine if you don’t complete it. Happened to me (not for voting, but another UK government contact) and it was a real pain getting them to back off as I’d not lived there for 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moghrey Mie Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 17 minutes ago, wrighty said: You’ll get a tax return demand and a fine if you don’t complete it. Happened to me (not for voting, but another UK government contact) and it was a real pain getting them to back off as I’d not lived there for 15 years. I've got a letter from HMRC to say I am resident in the IOM since 2000. They tried to take income tax off my pension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 2 minutes ago, Moghrey Mie said: I've got a letter from HMRC to say I am resident in the IOM since 2000. They tried to take income tax off my pension. Just wait a year...they'll be writing again when Labour get in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 On 6/26/2024 at 7:59 AM, P.K. said: Now on the surface it's all very amusing but unfortunately the backstory is not. Folks in the UK buy a newspaper that panders to their prejudices. So the circulation figures of the Mail, the Express, the Sun and the Telegraph should be a cause for concern. Because those four appalling excuses for a "news" paper were the main culprits in spreading decades-worth of anti-EU propaganda at the behest of the owner and as we all know if you throw enough mud eventually some of it sticks. Well here is a not entirely serious, conundrum for you to consider. I have spent time in mainland Europe. Mainly as a tourist but in a business capacity as well. If you go to the newsstands , say in France, Italy or Greece etc looking for an English newspaper to sit down and read whilst enjoying a coffee and a croissant, a vin rouge or an ouzo etc your choice is somewhat limited. Generally your choice is limited to the Mail, sometimes the Express. But rarely, if ever, will you see a copy of your beloved Guardian for sale. I will confess shamefacedly in these circumstances I have bought a copy of the Mail to get the sports news etc. Also the horoscopes, crosswords and agony aunt advice are apolitical.. So why is it so hard to find an English newspaper, that is so pro EU,in the EU itself? This is a bit tongue in cheek but I’d be interested in your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.