woolley Posted June 27 Share Posted June 27 On 6/26/2024 at 7:14 AM, wrighty said: There is something in that, but it is extremely difficult. Hypothetically, if Nigel Farage had gone round various care homes ‘helping’ the dementia patients with their postal votes, would you be happy with the outcome that they helped determine? I do think some people should not be able to vote. We don’t allow children to vote. Should adults who lack capacity to determine their own medical treatment be allowed to? In the Brexit referendum specifically I think giving 14 and 15 year olds a vote would have been more valid than that. I'll take that as a joke. HiVibes and contemporaries are not ready for that kind of responsibility. Children's minds are not yet fully formed. At the same time I don't believe those dribbling into their soup in care homes should be voting either. Crazy at both ends of the spectrum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 12 hours ago, woolley said: I'll take that as a joke. HiVibes and contemporaries are not ready for that kind of responsibility. Children's minds are not yet fully formed. At the same time I don't believe those dribbling into their soup in care homes should be voting either. Crazy at both ends of the spectrum. Unfortunately physical age is no longer a reliable measure of who is compos mentis and who isn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 15 hours ago, woolley said: I'll take that as a joke. HiVibes and contemporaries are not ready for that kind of responsibility. Children's minds are not yet fully formed. At the same time I don't believe those dribbling into their soup in care homes should be voting either. Crazy at both ends of the spectrum. Problem is those dribbling into their soup are tax payers and therefore deserve a say in how that money is spent. Children don’t pay tax so do not deserve a say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Power Posted June 30 Share Posted June 30 (edited) I don't think people are voting for Farage because he ‘promised them the world’ or because they’re closet racists, or ‘Putin apologists’. They’re voting for Reform because they have looked at the other parties - and experienced life under them - and don’t agree with their agenda, their policies or their representatives. In fact in some cases they viscerally hate them. So telling them that they’re stupid and brainwashed (though how people think insulting them will change their minds is beyond me), but just as is happening across Europe, there is a growing awareness amongst the public that the policies being inflicted upon them by their supposed betters don’t actually work, and in a lot of cases will do real harm. By all means people can revert to calling them thick racists if that’s more comfortable. But I don't think anyone could be more wrong about what’s really going on. Edited June 30 by Max Power Typed on a blank page and copied and pasted. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 18 hours ago, Cambon said: @P.K.At the end of Q2 on Friday, the UK’s FTSE100 was the only major European borse that ended the quarter positive, being up 2% over the period. @Cambon Essential reading: What Have Fourteen Years of Conservative Rule Done to Britain? Living standards have fallen. The country is exhausted by constant drama. But the U.K. can’t move on from the Tories without facing up to the damage that has occurred. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/04/01/what-have-fourteen-years-of-conservative-rule-done-to-britain Amen to that. On yesterdays "Newsnight" the tory stooge told Harriet Harman (who was wearing absolutely dreadful trousers btw) that "Labour were desperate!" With a 20 point lead? Don't think so... They then brought in another tory Cabinet member Chris Philp. Amazingly he brought up the "£2000" Labour tax rise that was soundly debunked when Sunak first invented it and again when Mordaunt reiterated it. What is wrong with these people? He also said a lot more Labour tax rises were on the way "Because they haven't said they wouldn't bring them in..." Cue lots of nonsense until Victoria Derbyshire told him "Now you're just inventing things" and moved on. The general opinion outside of the UK tory right wing press in thrall to the agenda of the owner, which is to say pretty much all of it, is that Labour would be inheriting from Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and now Sunak a country that is in it's worst state in modern history by just about any matrix you care to think of. The result of the worst government in living memory and probably forever. The French should take note of just what damage can be done by populist politicians and their resultant "policies". And Trump will probably be President again. You just couldn't make it up... In a couple of days the tories will probably lose power but in a way the complete shambles they have left behind will work in their favour. Because with the dreadful state the UK's finances are in Starmer and co will find it very tough going to fix things. So it's highly likely that five years simply won't be enough time to make much progress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exotic Bird Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambon Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 7 hours ago, P.K. said: @Cambon Essential reading: What Have Fourteen Years of Conservative Rule Done to Britain? Living standards have fallen. The country is exhausted by constant drama. But the U.K. can’t move on from the Tories without facing up to the damage that has occurred. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/04/01/what-have-fourteen-years-of-conservative-rule-done-to-britain Amen to that. On yesterdays "Newsnight" the tory stooge told Harriet Harman (who was wearing absolutely dreadful trousers btw) that "Labour were desperate!" With a 20 point lead? Don't think so... They then brought in another tory Cabinet member Chris Philp. Amazingly he brought up the "£2000" Labour tax rise that was soundly debunked when Sunak first invented it and again when Mordaunt reiterated it. What is wrong with these people? He also said a lot more Labour tax rises were on the way "Because they haven't said they wouldn't bring them in..." Cue lots of nonsense until Victoria Derbyshire told him "Now you're just inventing things" and moved on. The general opinion outside of the UK tory right wing press in thrall to the agenda of the owner, which is to say pretty much all of it, is that Labour would be inheriting from Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and now Sunak a country that is in it's worst state in modern history by just about any matrix you care to think of. The result of the worst government in living memory and probably forever. The French should take note of just what damage can be done by populist politicians and their resultant "policies". And Trump will probably be President again. You just couldn't make it up... In a couple of days the tories will probably lose power but in a way the complete shambles they have left behind will work in their favour. Because with the dreadful state the UK's finances are in Starmer and co will find it very tough going to fix things. So it's highly likely that five years simply won't be enough time to make much progress... There are some easy wins for labour when or if they get in, without raising tax rates. I am sure they are on top of it. Yes, for the past few years the conservatives have done a bad job. One of the things that caused the incredibly high tax rates were the destructive low interest rates. That has changed now. We may see a slight drop in rated in a month or two, but rates circa 5% are here for the foreseeable. One of those five percent is basically tax revenue. If whomever gets in removes the £1000 tax free interest allowance, government will make a killing. Don't forget, when labour were beaten last time, they left a note “There is no money left.” Or similar. Yes, they were voted out tor pretty much the same reasons the conservatives are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 8 hours ago, P.K. said: @Cambon Essential reading: What Have Fourteen Years of Conservative Rule Done to Britain? Living standards have fallen. The country is exhausted by constant drama. But the U.K. can’t move on from the Tories without facing up to the damage that has occurred. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/04/01/what-have-fourteen-years-of-conservative-rule-done-to-britain Amen to that. On yesterdays "Newsnight" the tory stooge told Harriet Harman (who was wearing absolutely dreadful trousers btw) that "Labour were desperate!" With a 20 point lead? Don't think so... They then brought in another tory Cabinet member Chris Philp. Amazingly he brought up the "£2000" Labour tax rise that was soundly debunked when Sunak first invented it and again when Mordaunt reiterated it. What is wrong with these people? He also said a lot more Labour tax rises were on the way "Because they haven't said they wouldn't bring them in..." Cue lots of nonsense until Victoria Derbyshire told him "Now you're just inventing things" and moved on. The general opinion outside of the UK tory right wing press in thrall to the agenda of the owner, which is to say pretty much all of it, is that Labour would be inheriting from Cameron, May, Johnson, Truss and now Sunak a country that is in it's worst state in modern history by just about any matrix you care to think of. The result of the worst government in living memory and probably forever. The French should take note of just what damage can be done by populist politicians and their resultant "policies". And Trump will probably be President again. You just couldn't make it up... In a couple of days the tories will probably lose power but in a way the complete shambles they have left behind will work in their favour. Because with the dreadful state the UK's finances are in Starmer and co will find it very tough going to fix things. So it's highly likely that five years simply won't be enough time to make much progress... It is so amusing when you use that broken record meme. I don't know how you have the nerve, but top marks for chutzpah. Of course things are not the best, but they aren't anywhere. This is 2024, not 2004. Times have changed globally, and it's a more challenging world. I'm not making a case for the Tories, and I wouldn't vote for them, BUT let's be realistic. Those 14 years started in the shadow of the financial crisis of 2008, and the first five years were in coalition with your friends Nick Clegg and his LibDems. Then, more recently, there has been the pandemic which cost the thick end of half a trillion of taxpayer's money, followed by the war in Ukraine and the resultant commodities shock and associated inflation. It hasn't been handled well for sure, but it hasn't anywhere else either. Economically and socially it was a complete "unknown unknown" for the UK, in common with other major economies. I suggest that whatever government was in power through the period would be blamed for the resulting financial situation, the fickle public having conveniently forgotten the costs of the crisis and the cash that was dealt out to the population and firms to cover furlough and business support measures, all supported by Labour and the other parties at the time. It has to be paid for. GDP adjusted for inflation hasn't fared badly considering the backdrop: https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/uk-gdp/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 42 minutes ago, woolley said: It is so amusing when you use that broken record meme. I don't know how you have the nerve, but top marks for chutzpah. That was my immediate thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 3 hours ago, Cambon said: Don't forget, when labour were beaten last time, they left a note “There is no money left.” Or similar. Yes, they were voted out tor pretty much the same reasons the conservatives are now. @Cambon Dear me, you should at least try to get things right... The world had just come through the biggest financial upset since the Great Depression ffs! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-note-successor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 2 hours ago, woolley said: Those 14 years started in the shadow of the financial crisis of 2008, and the first five years were in coalition with your friends Nick Clegg and his LibDems. Then, more recently, there has been the pandemic which cost the thick end of half a trillion of taxpayer's money, followed by the war in Ukraine and the resultant commodities shock and associated inflation. It hasn't been handled well for sure, but it hasn't anywhere else either. Economically and socially it was a complete "unknown unknown" for the UK, in common with other major economies. I suggest that whatever government was in power through the period would be blamed for the resulting financial situation, the fickle public having conveniently forgotten the costs of the crisis and the cash that was dealt out to the population and firms to cover furlough and business support measures, all supported by Labour and the other parties at the time. It has to be paid for. GDP adjusted for inflation hasn't fared badly considering the backdrop: https://www.worldometers.info/gdp/uk-gdp/ Nick Turncoat Cleggy is no friend of mine. He betrayed our Liberal Democratic beliefs because he was promised a few crumbs from Cameron's table and in the end he failed to get even those. The reason they are now just a rump with a circus clown for a leader is because Liberal values are light years away from the tory ethos of "They don't vote tory so fuck 'em" and a lot nearer to Labour with their social conscience. Which is why people like me cut our cards up and sent them back with a "never again" note attached. There were three economically and social "unknown unknown" for the UK during the period: The economy taking a complete leap into the dark because of brexit. The pandemic that was so badly handled by the tories that the UK was frequently out in front for number of deaths per 100k of the population. The Russian invasion of Ukraine. Of course all three had an impact but I believe the seeds of a lot of the UK's ills were sown by David Cameron and Gideon Osborne with their "austerity" program and the deep uncertainty caused by brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 3 minutes ago, P.K. said: Nick Turncoat Cleggy is no friend of mine. He betrayed our Liberal Democratic beliefs because he was promised a few crumbs from Cameron's table and in the end he failed to get even those. That's not quite true...given it was a coalition they got at least the following: 1. Significant increase in the personal income tax allowance 2. Implementation of the Pupil Premium 3. Referendum on changing the voting system to the Alternative Vote (AV) 4. Introduction of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 5. Reforms aimed at protecting civil liberties, including the abolition of identity cards 6. Influence on environmental policies, including the establishment of the Green Investment Bank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 6 minutes ago, P.K. said: . The reason they are now just a rump with a circus clown for a leader is because Liberal values are light years away from the tory ethos of "They don't vote tory so fuck 'em" and a lot nearer to Labour with their social conscience. Er I’m not sure that’s what you meant. Anyway for once I find myself agreeing with yourself. And that’s re Davey. What on earth has he been doing with his electioneering stunts, bungee jumping, water sliding etc. The man’s a fool on a par with Swinson who openly declared that if the Lib Dems won she would defy the will of the British people and reverse Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Tatlock Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 2 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: And that’s re Davey. What on earth has he been doing with his electioneering stunts, bungee jumping, water sliding etc. The man’s a fool on a par with Swinson who openly declared that if the Lib Dems won she would defy the will of the British people and reverse Brexit. You're talking about him though. Like it or lump it, he's got them 50% more airtime than they would otherwise have got. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 6 minutes ago, Albert Tatlock said: You're talking about him though. Like it or lump it, he's got them 50% more airtime than they would otherwise have got. 50% more airtime possibly yes, but maybe 20% less votes than they would otherwise have got, due to his tomfoolery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.