Declan Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 11 minutes ago, P.K. said: Ah yes. Nick "turncoat" Cleggy ditched his Liberal morals for the crumbs from Cameron's table. Including his main election pledge about the controversial "Tuition Fees" farrago. Unforgiveable so not suprising they're still struggling for a revival in their fortunes. Don't get me wrong, I'm only saying they provided stability compared to the shitshow that followed. You could say they enabled austerity and gave the Tories the appearance of unity and competence going into the 2015 election. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 49 minutes ago, HeliX said: He considerably improved it whilst much of his party was anti. And he was a decent statesman. Shame he threw away a decent legacy with the referendum. He thought he was smart, but at least we got the right result. He even enabled it by going to the EU and asking for concessions to help him get Remain over the line, but they gave him the finger instead in their eternal arrogance, and everyone saw how powerless a national government is within the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 10 minutes ago, woolley said: He thought he was smart, but at least we got the right result. He even enabled it by going to the EU and asking for concessions to help him get Remain over the line, but they gave him the finger instead in their eternal arrogance, and everyone saw how powerless a national government is within the EU. We need a *Yawn* reaction button... Leave won, get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Just now, manxman1980 said: We need a *Yawn* reaction button... Leave won, get over it. I didn't have anything to get over, and I only comment on it when I see nonsense. Tell Helix and PK. It's 8 years. I was merely adding balance to Helix assertion below: He considerably improved it whilst much of his party was anti. And he was a decent statesman. Shame he threw away a decent legacy with the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 4 minutes ago, woolley said: I didn't have anything to get over, and I only comment on it when I see nonsense. Tell Helix and PK. It's 8 years. I was merely adding balance to Helix assertion below: He considerably improved it whilst much of his party was anti. And he was a decent statesman. Shame he threw away a decent legacy with the referendum. If he was that decent a statesman how come he was unable to deal out of the EU that would have been acceptable to the country? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 20 minutes ago, woolley said: I didn't have anything to get over, and I only comment on it when I see nonsense. Tell Helix and PK. It's 8 years. I was merely adding balance to Helix assertion below: He considerably improved it whilst much of his party was anti. And he was a decent statesman. Shame he threw away a decent legacy with the referendum. I didn't write anything about Brexit. Do you think Cameron came out of the referendum looking good? Do you think it helped or damaged his legacy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 hour ago, HeliX said: I didn't write anything about Brexit. Do you think Cameron came out of the referendum looking good? Do you think it helped or damaged his legacy? Well, if brexit had delivered on it's promises of cheaper food, cheaper fuel, higher standards of living, a fully funded NHS, fewer immigrants/migrants etc etc then Cameron could have taken the credit. However... Hence I was appalled when he was given a life peerage. After the damage inflicted by his totally stupid and completely unnecessary referendum a cell in the Tower of London would have been more appropriate after a landing through Traitors Gate! The very worst thing about it is it sent a very clear message to the world stage that Sunak's administration had such a paucity of talent that he was reduced to bringing back a failed has-been! These are definitely dark days for the UK... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 42 minutes ago, P.K. said: then Cameron could have taken the credit. Not sure that would've looked very good after his referendum results flounce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 10 minutes ago, HeliX said: Not sure that would've looked very good after his referendum results flounce. He's a tory politician! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 8 hours ago, HeliX said: He considerably improved it whilst much of his party was anti. And he was a decent statesman. Shame he threw away a decent legacy with the referendum. As a Tory he is one of the better ones. Yes kudos to him for bringing in gay marriage legislation. Why would you say that he “ threw away a decent legacy with the referendum “. Giving people the choice to vote on such an important issue ( and given the result, even though it wasn’t the one he expected) surely was the right thing to do. If anything it further enhances his legacy, Oh I’m sorry, I forgot the referendum didn’t deliver the result you wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 6 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: Why would you say that he “ threw away a decent legacy with the referendum “. Giving people the choice to vote on such an important issue ( and given the result, even though it wasn’t the one he expected) surely was the right thing to do. No, it was an unbelievably stupid thing to put to referendum, as shown by the most googled thing the morning after in the UK being "what is the EU". Many pro-leave also acknowledge this fact. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manxman1980 Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 If people insist on bringing up Brexit in this thread... Isn't it noticeable that Brexit is the elephant in the room in this election campaign? I have not seen one party acknowledge Brexit or the future relationship with the EU beyond references when discussing immigration. I suspect that at the end of this next Parliament that we won't be able to move for that elephant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 1 hour ago, manxman1980 said: If people insist on bringing up Brexit in this thread... Isn't it noticeable that Brexit is the elephant in the room in this election campaign? I have not seen one party acknowledge Brexit or the future relationship with the EU beyond references when discussing immigration. I suspect that at the end of this next Parliament that we won't be able to move for that elephant. Had it been a success Sunak would have been shouting what a tory success it was from the rooftops. His not mentioning it speaks volumes about what a total failure it has been... Which puts Starmer in a bit of a bind. How many red wall seats would Starmer win back if his party canvassed with a pitch of "Brexit was a disastrously fucking stupid thing to do you morons so now we have to do something about damage limitation...!" or similar? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 9 hours ago, Declan said: If he was that decent a statesman how come he was unable to deal out of the EU that would have been acceptable to the country? You'd have to ask Helix. He called him a decent statesman, not me. For me he's typical of his ilk. Silver spoon Oxbridge stuffed shirt, full of arrogant entitlement from cradle to grave. He only promised the referendum in the Tory manifesto because he expected the LibDems to thwart it in a hung parliament. Funny how things turn out. Nobody could have done such a deal with the EU, incidentally. That's not how the EU works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 9 hours ago, HeliX said: I didn't write anything about Brexit. Really? To quote you: Shame he threw away a decent legacy with the referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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