HeliX Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Just now, Non-Believer said: Why aren't they? There's plenty advertised...do you know why? Because the pay and conditions are not better than what's available in the private sector, despite many claiming the contrary. The job security is good, the pension is good (though nowhere near what it used to be), but the pay is generally quite poor. There'll be roles with exceptions to that, but as a whole there's better wages and more interesting work available in the private sector. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 On 6/16/2024 at 9:09 PM, Non-Believer said: 2016 I think it was, the whole PS got a notable rise of @ 12% which was supposed to compensate for a previous number of years of below-inflation rises. Don't forget the standard 12 monthly increments to band maximum too. I think that's what pisses me off the most about the Public Sector. Their sense of entitlement. In most cases totally undeserved as there are obviously far too many of them... When inflation was in double-digits Public Sector pensioners got the full monty of a rise - 11% plus. Most Private Sector pensions were capped at 5% equating to a drop in their standard of living that they will never be getting back. Very ironic when you think it's the Private Sector that actually fund the drones... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 19 minutes ago, Banker said: 31 minutes ago, HeliX said: Er, people should be judged on output, not by micromanaging their time and mouse movements. Lots in public sector wouldn’t be paid much if they were being paid on output, it would reduce salary costs substantially Lots, Banker? Got any evidence, or just a feeling in your water? Quick scenario: ”Hi, Banker. Can I have a loan? ”Sure Jarndyce, how much? ”Lots” ”Oh, I’m afraid you’ll need to be a bit more specific than that, Jarndyce - the bank can’t just give you ‘lots’ - you’d need to tell us how much…, ‘lots’ is a bit meaningless as a number”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 8 minutes ago, P.K. said: I think that's what pisses me off the most about the Public Sector. Their sense of entitlement. In most cases totally undeserved as there are obviously far too many of them... Seriously, though - tell us what you REALLY think. 🙂 Edited June 18 by Jarndyce 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 16 minutes ago, HeliX said: Because the pay and conditions are not better than what's available in the private sector, despite many claiming the contrary. The job security is good, the pension is good (though nowhere near what it used to be), but the pay is generally quite poor. There'll be roles with exceptions to that, but as a whole there's better wages and more interesting work available in the private sector. The job security is good (you can't get sacked, regardless of the size of the fuck up) and few private sector employers will/could match the bennies being offered (see previous screenshot). Holidays as advertised start at 21 days pa plus a career-increasing number of privilege days and observance of every public and bank holiday (10 days as advertised), which many private sector employers do not; that can soon rack up to 7 or 8 weeks holiday a year, assuming a 5 day week. Manual workers only work a 37 hour week as opposed to 39-42 in the private sector. The pay has been increasing over the last 30 years, Govt used it as a carrot and stick to drag private sector pay up in the late 90s. There have been some significant rises in the last 10 years alone and not many private sector workers are guaranteed a negotiated rise every year. What is not required is initiative, too much motivation or too much of a conscience. You will show your fellow workers up and it's not appreciated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 12 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: The job security is good (you can't get sacked, regardless of the size of the fuck up) and few private sector employers will/could match the bennies being offered (see previous screenshot). Holidays as advertised start at 21 days pa plus a career-increasing number of privilege days and observance of every public and bank holiday (10 days as advertised), which many private sector employers do not; that can soon rack up to 7 or 8 weeks holiday a year, assuming a 5 day week. Manual workers only work a 37 hour week as opposed to 39-42 in the private sector. The pay has been increasing over the last 30 years, Govt used it as a carrot and stick to drag private sector pay up in the late 90s. There have been some significant rises in the last 10 years alone and not many private sector workers are guaranteed a negotiated rise every year. What is not required is initiative, too much motivation or too much of a conscience. You will show your fellow workers up and it's not appreciated Show this to any front line health care worker, for example an HCA - see if they recognise the picture you’re painting. See if their ‘bennies’ match the advert. “Public Sector” encompasses a very wide range, not often acknowledged here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, Jarndyce said: Show this to any front line health care worker, for example an HCA - see if they recognise the picture you’re painting. See if their ‘bennies’ match the advert. “Public Sector” encompasses a very wide range, not often acknowledged here. I don't think any of us will forget applauding our "NHS Heroes" with their slap-in-the-face 1% payrise from a grateful government not... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 57 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: The job security is good (you can't get sacked, regardless of the size of the fuck up) and few private sector employers will/could match the bennies being offered (see previous screenshot). People almost never get sacked in the private sector. Almost every company will have a Verbal Warning, Written Warning, 2nd Written Warning, Dismissal approach to disciplinary procedures, and in practice nobody ever gets to the dismissal part because once they get a written warning they just go find work elsewhere. Quote Holidays as advertised start at 21 days pa plus a career-increasing number of privilege days and observance of every public and bank holiday (10 days as advertised), which many private sector employers do not; that can soon rack up to 7 or 8 weeks holiday a year, assuming a 5 day week. Manual workers only work a 37 hour week as opposed to 39-42 in the private sector. Many private sector employers do have good holiday entitlement. Quote The pay has been increasing over the last 30 years, Govt used it as a carrot and stick to drag private sector pay up in the late 90s. There have been some significant rises in the last 10 years alone and not many private sector workers are guaranteed a negotiated rise every year. Well yes, you've sort of nailed the point here but seem to not be applying it to your own opinion. The public sector competes with the private sector for employees. Which is why there's a reasonable amount of balance (at least for professional roles) between public and private sector employment. They each have pros and cons, and overall the difference between them is minimal on the whole. Quote What is not required is initiative, too much motivation or too much of a conscience. You will show your fellow workers up and it's not appreciated. This rather highlights where your view of public sector employment is coming from. It's an underlying dislike of public sector workers, not an objective assessment of the facts. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 23 minutes ago, HeliX said: People almost never get sacked in the private sector. Almost every company will have a Verbal Warning, Written Warning, 2nd Written Warning, Dismissal approach to disciplinary procedures, and in practice nobody ever gets to the dismissal part because once they get a written warning they just go find work elsewhere. Many private sector employers do have good holiday entitlement. Well yes, you've sort of nailed the point here but seem to not be applying it to your own opinion. The public sector competes with the private sector for employees. Which is why there's a reasonable amount of balance (at least for professional roles) between public and private sector employment. They each have pros and cons, and overall the difference between them is minimal on the whole. This rather highlights where your view of public sector employment is coming from. It's an underlying dislike of public sector workers, not an objective assessment of the facts. My view is based on personal experience, having gone private-public-private and finding that I'm distinctly more comfortable in the private for the stated reasons. PS terms obviously can't be too onerous or unrewarding, we managed to recruit <700 more last year. Lastly, I would draw your attention to the below post from @Dave Hedgehog from a couple of months ago as a pointer to how the sector operates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.K. Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Ah yes, the Public Sector omerta in action... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeliX Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 10 minutes ago, Non-Believer said: My view is based on personal experience, having gone private-public-private and finding that I'm distinctly more comfortable in the private for the stated reasons. PS terms obviously can't be too onerous or unrewarding, we managed to recruit <700 more last year. And how many more in the private sector were recruited? They're comparable enough that either is a reasonable choice. Quote Lastly, I would draw your attention to the below post from @Dave Hedgehog from a couple of months ago as a pointer to how the sector operates. Ah yes, nobody in the private sector is a moron. And that example is nearly 30 years old. I've done a (very) brief stint in the public sector. I've spent the rest of my career in the private sector, though often working with the public sector. Every place of employment has its share of brilliant people and complete tosspots who get nothing done but keep the job anyway. In my experience the balance is about the same in public and private. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 hours ago, Non-Believer said: The job security is good (you can't get sacked, regardless of the size of the fuck up) and few private sector employers will/could match the bennies being offered (see previous screenshot). Holidays as advertised start at 21 days pa plus a career-increasing number of privilege days and observance of every public and bank holiday (10 days as advertised), which many private sector employers do not; that can soon rack up to 7 or 8 weeks holiday a year, assuming a 5 day week. Manual workers only work a 37 hour week as opposed to 39-42 in the private sector. The pay has been increasing over the last 30 years, Govt used it as a carrot and stick to drag private sector pay up in the late 90s. There have been some significant rises in the last 10 years alone and not many private sector workers are guaranteed a negotiated rise every year. What is not required is initiative, too much motivation or too much of a conscience. You will show your fellow workers up and it's not appreciated. Many also think they have 10 days sick leave. I know a number of CS who go ‘sick’ in March to use up their quota before year end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ram Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 minutes ago, english zloty said: Many also think they have 10 days sick leave. I know a number of CS who go ‘sick’ in March to use up their quota before year end. No you don’t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
english zloty Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Roger Ram said: No you don’t Yes I do. Otherwise I wouldn’t have made the comment you dick. Though I do agree it seems incredible that folk would have that mindset. That’s the CS for you. Edited June 18 by english zloty Extra paragraph 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Believer Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, HeliX said: And how many more in the private sector were recruited? They're comparable enough that either is a reasonable choice. Ah yes, nobody in the private sector is a moron. And that example is nearly 30 years old. I've done a (very) brief stint in the public sector. I've spent the rest of my career in the private sector, though often working with the public sector. Every place of employment has its share of brilliant people and complete tosspots who get nothing done but keep the job anyway. In my experience the balance is about the same in public and private. But little of that is about comparison with T&Cs between PS and private sector which is what this debate is about. And incompetence tends to get emptied a lot, lot quicker in the private sector because it impacts the bottom line. Do you think Peel Ports would have tolerated the conduct leading to the £100M costs associated with Liverpool Terminal, had they been building it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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