Public sector want inflation busting rises again

[TheTeapot]

Hope Lamara gets it!

[Roger Mexico]

12 minutes ago, Roger Ram said:

I am still reeling at four days for a few evening meetings.

At least 13:

Ramsey Town Commissioners hold their annual meeting in public on the first weekday of May each year together with public meetings on the third Wednesday of every month. The meetings start at 7:00 pm and are held in the boardroom on the first floor of the Town Hall, Parliament Square, Ramsey.

Of course the real question is whether the extra days are taken as well as time in lieu or as part-recompense for the extra evening work that comes with the job.

[Non-Believer]

There is no financial or leave entitlement that is adequate compensation for listening to Lamara Craine for 12 evenings a year...

[Roger Ram]

24 minutes ago, Roger Mexico said:

At least 13:

Ramsey Town Commissioners hold their annual meeting in public on the first weekday of May each year together with public meetings on the third Wednesday of every month. The meetings start at 7:00 pm and are held in the boardroom on the first floor of the Town Hall, Parliament Square, Ramsey.

Of course the real question is whether the extra days are taken as well as time in lieu or as part-recompense for the extra evening work that comes with the job.

I know how many there are thanks.

I do more than that as do several others at our business.  We don’t claim extra days off!!

Those who are entitled to overtime would claim it, but the more senior staff just suck it up. 

[Roger Ram]

1 hour ago, TheTeapot said:

Hope Lamara gets it!

Did you see the job spec?  She has absolutely no relevant experience thankfully 

[Ringy Rose]

4 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Depends - it releases pension costs for a start. And if the system already exists it can be very cheap to do.

Auto-enrol means there are employer pension costs even in a defined contribution scheme. These, together with the profit margin for the outsourcer, means it isn’t any cheaper. Indeed it often ends up being more expensive, especially in IT, as all the “hidden extras” suddenly get billed for in full. That’s how outsourcers make their money.

3 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

Please also note the 25 days leave entitlement details with "additional days" for continuous service, not quite the 21 days that some on these boards were trying to suggest was the staple for PS a couple of days ago

Ramsey council isn’t in the PSC, so annual leave entitlements may differ.

The PSC is 21+1, and only goes up with long service- it used to only go up after five years, but I’m not sure what it is now. I think it’s 1 after 1 years and another 1 after 3 years. So 23+1. I was getting 30 plus bank holidays when I worked for a private law firm in the UK.

The one difference is the hours. People in the private sector do “hours commensurate with the grade” at that sort of pay grade. Although informal TOIL certainly wasn’t uncommon- it’s not like people at that pay grade clock  in and out either.

 

 

[Non-Believer]

16 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

Ramsey council isn’t in the PSC, so annual leave entitlements may differ.

The PSC is 21+1, and only goes up with long service- it used to only go up after five years, but I’m not sure what it is now. I think it’s 1 after 1 years and another 1 after 3 years. So 23+1. I was getting 30 plus bank holidays when I worked for a private law firm in the UK.

The one difference is the hours. People in the private sector do “hours commensurate with the grade” at that sort of pay grade. Although informal TOIL certainly wasn’t uncommon- it’s not like people at that pay grade clock  in and out either.

Local Authority conditions are analogous with central govt and all fall under the PSC umbrella, as they did previously with Whitley Council. I used to work with long-servers who had accrued as many as 6 privilege days a year on top of their normal annual leave allowance.

[Ringy Rose]

23 minutes ago, Non-Believer said:

Local Authority conditions are analogous with central govt and all fall under the PSC umbrella

They’re analogous, but not the same. It’s the same with some of the statutory boards, they also aren’t technically the PSC and have discretion to offer more, which is why FSA jobs start at 25 days for instance.

It also depends when you started- those who joined before 2016 have better terms too.

But you’ll notice all PSC jobs are advertised as 21+1, and that extra 1 (the privilege day) was only given back last year having been taken away from the PSC new starters in 2016.

Edited June 20 by Ringy Rose

[Non-Believer]

6 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

They’re analogous, but not the same. It’s the same with some of the statutory boards, they also aren’t technically the PSC and have discretion to offer more, which is why FSA jobs start at 25 days for instance.

It also depends when you started- those who joined before 2016 have better terms too.

But you’ll notice all PSC jobs are advertised as 21+1, and that extra 1 (the privilege day) was only given back last year having been taken away from the PSC new starters in 2016.

But the fact is that as I previously stated, employees in areas of the PS (and not necessarily all those falling under the post-2016 PSC T&Cs) can enjoy 30+ days annual holidays, plus all the statutory Public Holidays; which can be as much as 40 days a year.

And isn't it strange that Govt, despite having tried to make cutbacks in the name of preserving sustainability (and jobs), they are now rescinding and reapplying privilege days?

[Ringy Rose]

10 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

And isn't it strange that Govt, despite having tried to make cutbacks in the name of preserving sustainability (and jobs), they are now rescinding and reapplying privilege days?

The privilege day was reinstated as part of the last pay award. The last pay award was 6% when inflation was running at over 12%.

 

10 hours ago, Non-Believer said:

employees in areas of the PS (and not necessarily all those falling under the post-2016 PSC T&Cs) can enjoy 30+ days annual holidays

The maximum in the PSC is 28 (+1) days, which you reach after 10 years: https://hr.gov.im/salary-leave-and-pay/annual-leave/

 Facts, eh.

[Non-Believer]

1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said:

The privilege day was reinstated as part of the last pay award. The last pay award was 6% when inflation was running at over 12%.

 

The maximum in the PSC is 28 (+1) days, which you reach after 10 years: https://hr.gov.im/salary-leave-and-pay/annual-leave/

 Facts, eh.

Ah yes, the reinstatement was another sweetner in the pay round. So if we assume that there are 3000 Govt workers on the new PSC terms then Govt have just signed away another 3000 days of paid working time on the Island?

As for the days accrued, 28 days (+ the 10 statutory public holidays) = 38 days which is in line with the 7 - 8 working weeks leave that I alluded to in previous posts. Facts eh?

What I am trying to do is dispel this myth that PS workers are somehow hard done to in respect of T&Cs in comparison with the private sector and the only benefit they have to keep them going is "The Pension".

In actual fact, in many areas such and hours and leave, they are at least the equal of the private sector.

[Ringy Rose]

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

What I am trying to do is dispel this myth that PS workers are somehow hard done to in respect of T&Cs in comparison with the private sector and the only benefit they have to keep them going is "The Pension".

It’s only 29 days once you hit ten years long service..

Join the PSC today and you’ll get 22 days. Join a TCSP and you’ll get at least 25, in some cases more. It’s why I wouldn’t leave my current job to move to a PSC job.

In my last private sector job I got 30 days + 8 public holidays from day one. In my third sector job I got 26+8 from day one, with an extra 5 after 5 years service.

The PSC T&Cs are rubbish, especially for new starters. The benefits are job security and the pension. The rest is really quite shite unless you’re a long-timer.

1 hour ago, Non-Believer said:

Ah yes, the reinstatement was another sweetner in the pay round. So if we assume that there are 3000 Govt workers on the new PSC terms then Govt have just signed away another 3000 days of paid working time on the Island?

It was swings and roundabouts. Annual leave entitlement changed in 2021/2, reducing from a maximum of 30 to a maximum of 28, but with additional days for long service kicking in slightly earlier (it used to be kept at 21 until 5 years service). So 29 is still less than what someone would have got prior to 2021/22. That was part of that year’s pay award of 1%, which was also below inflation.

But yes, it was offered in lieu of a pay rise that went anywhere near inflation. And it was offered on a day where many government buildings were already closed, and where most private sector businesses are also closed or on skeleton staff.

As for your mathematics, 39 days- if you really insist on including public holidays- is not 8 weeks. 32 days, which is what a new starter gets, is not 7 weeks.

But yes, we get it. Anyone in the PCS gets 52 weeks a year off on holiday and they get a free ride on your wife. People in the private sector have to walk uphill both ways and get 3 minutes a year off. As we can see from the fact that there’s a stampede along Athol Street from all the banks and law firms and TCSPs every Friday, poor downtrodden private sector staff desperate for a bit of that hot PCS action.

Edited June 21 by Ringy Rose

[Radiolistner]

7 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

But yes, we get it. Anyone in the PCS gets 52 weeks a year off on holiday and they get a free ride on your wife. People in the private sector have to walk uphill both ways and get 3 minutes a year off. As we can see from the fact that there’s a stampede along Athol Street from all the banks and law firms and TCSPs every Friday, poor downtrodden private sector staff desperate for a bit of that hot PCS action.

Still the award winning sense of victimhood and self entitlement you so admirably display above must really chivvy you up to get out of bed in the morning to perform some sort of public service. 

[Ringy Rose]

6 minutes ago, Radiolistner said:

Still the award winning sense of victimhood and self entitlement you so admirably display

At least I can manage to spell the word “listener” correctly. It’s a really really hard word, so I can see why someone with your towering intellect would struggle with it.

[Radiolistner]

5 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

At least I can manage to spell the word “listener” correctly. It’s a really really hard word, so I can see why someone with your towering intellect would struggle with it.

You really personify the general sense of public sector arrogance and self entitlement in your posting style. As a taxpayer how much am I and everyone else here paying you to post rubbish on a public forum during work hours?