Derek Flint Posted August 7 Share Posted August 7 On 8/1/2024 at 1:05 PM, John Wright said: The IoM police recently were given a pay increase, so new entrants went in at a point part way up the original scale at £32,163. Now that UK police have an agreed 4.75% award, from September the IoM force gets that as well. NEW POLICE OFFICER PAY INCREASE UPDATE We recently announced that new Isle of Man Constables starting salary has risen to £32,163 in recognition that the salary needs to reflect the role and the work that our officers do in looking after their communities. Two days ago, the UK Govt announced a 4.75% salary increase for all officers from September (the IOMC has parity for pay and conditions) meaning that the starting pay for a new officer will now be £33,690, rising to £48,231 after three years service. Other benefits includes a shift working allowance, overtime, attractive Pension, Activ 8 and access to the Blue Light Card Membership. in other words, a Manx officer, after three years service, with shift allowances and overtime will be between £50,000-£55,000 That's what I retired on as an inspector in 2017. On 8/1/2024 at 1:13 PM, Amadeus said: Sounds like a pretty desirable career to me. Less stress than UK, good money, 30 years and you can ride off into the sunset. Sweet deal. Stresses are there. Just different. Picking up the pieces after deaths on the roads, rapes, child abuse cases, viewing images of that is pretty much the same whether it's Brentford or Braddan. On 8/1/2024 at 6:48 PM, Mysteron said: I've heard of that happening, but surely it's only offered to former officers with relevant experience, and not all retiring officers, irrespective of their experience? I don't know. If so, that kind of makes sense, as otherwise that experience is lost, and the government would have to employ some other 'expert' to do the same job. Their success rate in that respect is well known. An officer retiring after 30 years could be as young as 48. Nice if you can afford to fully retire at that age, but they might have children to put through further education, for example, or simply feel that they're too young to fully retire. Those that are successful at 18 are very few and far between. Most tend to be a good deal older. On 8/2/2024 at 2:41 PM, Non-Believer said: Paperwork and office admin; that's not tougher, certainly physically. When was the last time that IoM Police had to deal with a Southport (or anywhere else) violent riot scenario? Thankfully, pretty much never. And that's a thing to be really celebrated. Not necessarily because of the cops but a stable community On 8/2/2024 at 6:29 PM, Non-Believer said: That's maybe one or two individuals, pissheads fighting outside the pub or maybe a domestic. I'm talking about 20+ people throwing bits of wall and anything else to hand. When was a policeman last stabbed, shot, SERIOUSLY injured or killed over here in violence in the course of their duty (TT marshalling death and the odd bruise doesn't count)? Sorry, there can be no comparison in policing the streets here with the risks of policing those in UK. Yet. As Mike Culverhouse himself reminded his force; "You're patrolling Braddan, not Baghdad". Lost a few as a result of assault on duty including one run over by a car. The head stuff too. On the road death side the mental scars are very real. The risks are very different. I've had a few rucks where it was me and helpful members of the public It's one of the roles where some of the reward is not for what you do, but what you might have to do. It's increasingly complex and it needs to have competent people perhaps coming over from other 'safer' occupations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 20 Author Share Posted August 20 Unions turning down over inflation rise , demanding parity with UK unions. Of course UK will be putting up taxes and borrowing more to pay for it. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/prospect-says-psc-offer-likely-to-be-overwhelmingly-rejected/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Lamb Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 3 minutes ago, Banker said: Unions turning down over inflation rise , demanding parity with UK unions. Of course UK will be putting up taxes and borrowing more to pay for it. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/prospect-says-psc-offer-likely-to-be-overwhelmingly-rejected/ Of course the previous UK government borrowed more than any government before, but that was OK as it was to line the pockets of their rich supporters. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meoir Shee Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 48 minutes ago, Banker said: Unions turning down over inflation rise , demanding parity with UK unions. Of course UK will be putting up taxes and borrowing more to pay for it. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/prospect-says-psc-offer-likely-to-be-overwhelmingly-rejected/ Strange, during the period when public sector pay was constantly frozen (or reduced in real terms), taxes and borrowing both went up anyway. It’s almost as if that policy didn’t work. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 20 Author Share Posted August 20 56 minutes ago, Meoir Shee said: Strange, during the period when public sector pay was constantly frozen (or reduced in real terms), taxes and borrowing both went up anyway. It’s almost as if that policy didn’t work. Never been frozen over here, UK had a freeze . UK also had recruitment freeze , unlike here who massively increased numbers. Even Channel Islands have realised size of public sector is unsustainable and are taking steps to reduce numbers. If the unions were told you can have your pay rise but staff numbers need reducing to pay for it , would they accept that? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 (edited) 3 hours ago, Harry Lamb said: Of course the previous UK government borrowed more than any government before, but that was OK as it was to line the pockets of their rich supporters. Apart from the hundreds of billions they doled out on furlough to pay workers' salaries, keeping compulsorily closed businesses alive, keeping empty trains and buses running, paying government staff to sit at home on full pay, the additional costs of vaccine development and rollout, and NHS treating the covid sick and dying. Or have we forgotten all of that? Edited August 20 by woolley 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meoir Shee Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 4 hours ago, Banker said: Never been frozen over here Total and utter lie, many public sector roles on Island are linked to UK Government decisions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meoir Shee Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 (edited) 6 hours ago, Harry Lamb said: Of course the previous UK government borrowed more than any government before, but that was OK as it was to line the pockets of their rich supporters. 3 hours ago, woolley said: Apart from the hundreds of billions they doled out on furlough to pay workers' salaries, keeping compulsorily closed businesses alive, keeping empty trains and buses running, paying government staff to sit at home on full pay, the additional costs of vaccine development and rollout, and NHS treating the covid sick and dying. Or have we forgotten all of that? So, prior to Covid UK Government debt was actually falling? Care to evidence that? Or have we forgotten all of that? Edited August 20 by Meoir Shee Quote 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_N_Eggs Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 6 hours ago, Banker said: Unions turning down over inflation rise , demanding parity with UK unions. Of course UK will be putting up taxes and borrowing more to pay for it. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/prospect-says-psc-offer-likely-to-be-overwhelmingly-rejected/ Given they have had below inflation pay rises for years this is still a real terms cut in wages. Coupled with the fact that if inflation spirals up in the next year because a major war kicks off in the middle east the civil servants will be unable to negotiate a pay rise, I can see why it would be rejected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarndyce Posted August 20 Share Posted August 20 5 hours ago, Banker said: Never been frozen over here Bollocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercenary Posted August 21 Share Posted August 21 20 hours ago, Meoir Shee said: So, prior to Covid UK Government debt was actually falling? Care to evidence that? Or have we forgotten all of that? Better one is the cost of servicing the debt as percentage of GDP, and this is the one that did shoot up during COVID as the interest bubble burst from printing money. Pre-COVID it was costing the lowest on record to service, and interest rates were forecast to stay historically low for the long term due to demographics and other issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 21 Author Share Posted August 21 13 minutes ago, Mercenary said: Better one is the cost of servicing the debt as percentage of GDP, and this is the one that did shoot up during COVID as the interest bubble burst from printing money. Pre-COVID it was costing the lowest on record to service, and interest rates were forecast to stay historically low for the long term due to demographics and other issues. Bit more today on record public borrowing & speculation that taxes and or borrowing will have to rise plus maybe cuts in some other areas https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5d3xjl764o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banker Posted August 23 Author Share Posted August 23 No doubt tax rises coming to fund public sector pay rises , particularly if government cave in as usual https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/public-sector-pay-needs-to-be-able-to-attract-uk-workers-says-union/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meoir Shee Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 On 6/11/2024 at 8:01 AM, Banker said: With government finances under pressure, I think the public sector should welcome any pay rise but no doubt taxpayers will have to fund it with more taxes https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/union-brands-public-service-pay-offer-totally-unacceptable/ On 6/11/2024 at 9:44 AM, Banker said: So if you agree with high pay rises for civil servants how would you finance them? Tax rises or which services would you prefer cut? On 6/11/2024 at 10:05 AM, Banker said: The HNWI yes but would raise minimal extra, if you altered 0% then you would lose more business and therefore the associated tax take from employees, vat etc and would end up being neutral at best. If jobs aren’t being cut then only alternative is higher taxes and/or public services cut . On 6/11/2024 at 12:51 PM, Banker said: There is if other people worse off than them are having to fund it! On 6/11/2024 at 4:54 PM, Banker said: And how are you proposing it’s financed ? Job cuts , higher taxes or services cut which will mean jobs going? Public sector can’t keep expecting pay rises to be financed by the public On 6/11/2024 at 6:12 PM, Banker said: Perhaps we should cut civil service and cut welfare payments to fund government spending on wages like the Tories are promising? Would be popular with the public On 6/11/2024 at 6:28 PM, Banker said: IOM has the highest proportion of public sector across islands, UK etc https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2024/03/14/proportion-of-workforce-in-public-sector-similar-to-level-seen-in-1970s/ On 6/13/2024 at 8:00 AM, Banker said: Perhaps we should bring this guy over to slash civil servants 😂 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c255zdlde92o On 6/16/2024 at 10:52 AM, Banker said: Don’t forget the 6months full sick pay plus further 6 months at half pay for a large majority, the flexible working is areal scam, lots come in at 8, eat breakfast at desk, look at personal emails, have a chat and start actual work around 9 before leaving at 4 or take as extra holidays On 6/16/2024 at 5:11 PM, Banker said: From several sources who are civil servants and some them make no secret of the fact that it’s accepted practice in some of the departments. On 6/18/2024 at 10:10 AM, Banker said: Lots in public sector wouldn’t be paid much if they were being paid on output, it would reduce salary costs substantially!! On 6/20/2024 at 7:25 AM, Banker said: Maybe unions will reduce their 8% pay demands now they realize that jobs may be lost to cut wages costs https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/prospect-calls-for-more-clarity-amid-review-of-public-sector-headcount/ On 6/21/2024 at 4:04 PM, Banker said: Yes a lot of public sector or very entitled expecting large pay rises whether there’s any money to pay for them or not. IOMG needs to be saying the pay rises need to be self financing eg job cuts, more efficiently etc On 6/22/2024 at 6:18 PM, Banker said: But Tesco staff don’t get final salary pensions schemes & nor does anyone else, also the sickness pay entitlement is the best going which is why public sector always have a lot more sickness days than private sector. On 7/10/2024 at 9:50 AM, Banker said: No doubt civil servants will see themselves as deserving the same as police officers and demand similar! At least police have always paid a large amount for their pensions. https://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-police-officers-minimum-starting-salary-increased-to-drive-recruitment-and-retain-staff-703545 On 7/13/2024 at 7:40 PM, Banker said: Here’s Hewer, 3.25% seems reasonable with inflation well down particularly with government finances stretched, suppose taxes will rise to pay for higher wages for our civil servants https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/union-members-likely-to-overwhelmingly-reject-revised-public-sector-pay-offer/ On 7/18/2024 at 3:03 PM, Banker said: There’s a big cost to employment in the public sector which the unions also need to accept as every pay rise they get it costs a lot more because there’s not just the say 5% pay rise but NI and pension contributions on it plus extra sick pay costs on the new salaries. On 8/1/2024 at 7:29 AM, Banker said: Revised offer of 3.25% , unions would prefer lower paid to get more which seems fair but of course the many higher paid civil servants won’t! https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/unite-calls-for-meaningful-discussions-following-revised-public-sector-pay-offer/ On 8/5/2024 at 7:57 AM, Banker said: Hewer wants Tynwald recalled to discuss pay, of course he doesn’t care how the large rises are paid for , increased taxes,cuts in services & jobs https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/politicians-should-be-recalled-to-tynwald-to-debate-public-sector-pay-says-union-boss/ On 8/5/2024 at 7:12 PM, Banker said: That will probably get kicked down the road as hospitality and other small businesses won’t be able to afford it, thought all government employees got living wage as a minimum anyway. On 8/20/2024 at 5:01 PM, Banker said: Unions turning down over inflation rise , demanding parity with UK unions. Of course UK will be putting up taxes and borrowing more to pay for it. https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/prospect-says-psc-offer-likely-to-be-overwhelmingly-rejected/ On 8/20/2024 at 6:55 PM, Banker said: Never been frozen over here, UK had a freeze . UK also had recruitment freeze , unlike here who massively increased numbers. Even Channel Islands have realised size of public sector is unsustainable and are taking steps to reduce numbers. If the unions were told you can have your pay rise but staff numbers need reducing to pay for it , would they accept that? 2 hours ago, Banker said: No doubt tax rises coming to fund public sector pay rises , particularly if government cave in as usual https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/public-sector-pay-needs-to-be-able-to-attract-uk-workers-says-union/ On 8/21/2024 at 7:46 PM, Banker said: Bit more today on record public borrowing & speculation that taxes and or borrowing will have to rise plus maybe cuts in some other areas https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5d3xjl764o 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolley Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 On 8/20/2024 at 11:11 PM, Meoir Shee said: So, prior to Covid UK Government debt was actually falling? Care to evidence that? Or have we forgotten all of that? Of course. Delighted to. Certainly, PSNB was falling year by year throughout the 2010s, and by 2019 it was substantially less than half of its level in 2010. Your graph is misleading in this context because it isn't in cash terms, just as a percentage of GDP, and also it's the cumulative total net debt. Obviously, falling borrowing is still borrowing so the total continues to increase, though not as quickly. Borrowing flew after the 2008 financial crisis and bank bail-outs, then steadily reduced until 2019. Then there was Covid from 2020 onward so that was the end of that. Try this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/282844/united-kingdom-uk-government-borrowing-psnb/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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