Public sector want inflation busting rises again

[Ringy Rose]

8 minutes ago, Banker said:

In private sector if companies can’t afford pay rises without cuts then that’s what happens!

In the private sector they just put their prices up as high as they can. Which is why inflation on “telephony” is 11% and on “internet” it is 12%. And why Tesco have just announced a 9.1% pay rise for their staff.

[Ringy Rose]

3 minutes ago, 2112 said:

Inflation may be coming down, but sadly it’s not going to bring down lower costs on the island

Inflation isn’t coming down, it’s just going up less quickly. But the 2.3% this year is on top of the 12% for last year and the 10% for the year before that. People really don’t seem to understand the cumulative effect of inflation.

Eventually inflation will naturally hit a plateau.

I do think the 2.3% is also a temporary low level, big fuel cost rises are forecast for the autumn.

 

Edited June 11 by Ringy Rose

[Albert Tatlock]

25 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

So, one again, which jobs and which grades would you abolish?

 

Yours.

If you can't see there's a solution, you'll always be part of the problem.

[Roger Ram]

Top tip.

Arguing with a civil servant after 9am is pointless, as they will have significantly more spare time during working hours to reply than those of us in the private sector (real world)

[Banker]

24 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

Inflation isn’t coming down, it’s just going up less quickly. But the 2.3% this year is on top of the 12% for last year and the 10% for the year before that. People really don’t seem to understand the cumulative effect of inflation.

Eventually inflation will naturally hit a plateau.

I do think the 2.3% is also a temporary low level, big fuel cost rises are forecast for the autumn.

 

So if you agree with high pay rises for civil servants how would you finance them? Tax rises or which services would you prefer cut?

[Ringy Rose]

Just now, Albert Tatlock said:

Yours.

If you can't see there's a solution, you'll always be part of the problem.

I’m going to assume that, as you’ve resorted to ad hominem attacks, that you don’t have an answer.

I don’t work for the civil service btw.

You would abolish “all of cabinet office”, that’s a start. Does that include IT? Cabinet Office costs about £31m/year, but £24m/year of that is the cost of IT. You’d abolish all of HR (which is actually part of Cabinet Office, so you’d be abolishing them twice) and that would save about £6m, again that’s a start. But the individual departments would have to do their own payroll, their own recruitment admin, they’d have to buy in their own training, so would you actually save £6m?

Others would get rid of the DfE business agencies. Again, you’d theoretically save about £6m (assuming that the agencies have a nil positive effect in attracting business to the island).

But when the government expenditure is over a billion quid a year that’s just fiddling with deckchairs.

[Albert Tatlock]

2 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

I’m going to assume that, as you’ve resorted to ad hominem attacks, that you don’t have an answer.

I don’t work for the civil service btw.

You would abolish “all of cabinet office”, that’s a start. Does that include IT? Cabinet Office costs about £31m/year, but £24m/year of that is the cost of IT. You’d abolish all of HR (which is actually part of Cabinet Office, so you’d be abolishing them twice) and that would save about £6m, again that’s a start. But the individual departments would have to do their own payroll, their own recruitment admin, they’d have to buy in their own training, so would you actually save £6m?

Others would get rid of the DfE business agencies. Again, you’d theoretically save about £6m (assuming that the agencies have a nil positive effect in attracting business to the island).

But when the government expenditure is over a billion quid a year that’s just fiddling with deckchairs.

Your putting words in my mouth...abolishing departments?

I suggest you re-read what I posted this morning.

You're just being silly now.

 

[Ringy Rose]

3 minutes ago, Banker said:

So if you agree with high pay rises for civil servants how would you finance them? Tax rises or which services would you prefer cut?

I’d agree with a cap on an annual pay rise, rather than a blanket percentage rise, to target the extra money at the lower paid staff.

I don’t agree with “high pay rises”, but I do think pay rises should keep pace with inflation, especially for those lower down the pay scale. How to fund it? The HNWI tax cap hasn’t risen since 2019, I’d add £50k per person to that for starters- and this should have been done in the last budget when the income tax went up. I'd also have a nibble at that 0% corporation tax rate.

[manxman1980]

1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Yes. My first port of call would be HR, second...all of the Cabinet Office.

You're suggesting a whole sale restructure of the public sector and your starting point is HR?  That would be the department with the expertise and knowledge of how to plan and manage restructures effectively to minimise risk and future claims?

I can tell you that managers who think they understand the legislative requirements around what you are proposing are the worst to deal with and often the ones that wind you up in an Employment Tribunal.  

Are the HR team in the public sector effective?  I don't know I don't work there but I do know HR and if you have the right people and enable HR to be more than personnel then it can deliver results.  

[Banker]

5 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

I’d agree with a cap on an annual pay rise, rather than a blanket percentage rise, to target the extra money at the lower paid staff.

I don’t agree with “high pay rises”, but I do think pay rises should keep pace with inflation, especially for those lower down the pay scale. How to fund it? The HNWI tax cap hasn’t risen since 2019, I’d add £50k per person to that for starters- and this should have been done in the last budget when the income tax went up. I'd also have a nibble at that 0% corporation tax rate.

The HNWI yes but would raise minimal extra, if you altered 0% then you would lose more business and therefore the associated tax take from employees, vat etc and would end up being neutral at best.

If jobs aren’t being cut then only alternative is higher taxes and/or public services cut .

[asitis]

12 minutes ago, Ringy Rose said:

I'd also have a nibble at that 0% corporation tax rate.

Financial suicide for the island !

[joebean]

1 hour ago, Albert Tatlock said:

Exactly what that waste of space...Ms Faragher...was intimating the other day...

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/public-expects-first-class-services-but-isnt-paying-first-class-tax/

 

 

I wonder if she even addressed the size of the PS and whether any efficiency savings could be made to fund the delivery of better services? This is the area nobody in Government wishes to consider, instead opting for increasing revenue every year to pay the workforce, without any appreciable upward movement in service delivery. 

[Non-Believer]

It's a well known fact that within the PS the coalface has been relentlessly cut whilst managerial and admin posts have risen dramatically. Almost 700 new CS posts last year alone wasn't it?

How many private sector firms increased their workforce by that much pro rata/percentage-wise in the same period?

[Ringy Rose]

30 minutes ago, Banker said:

If jobs aren’t being cut then only alternative is higher taxes and/or public services cut .

It circles back to which jobs to cut. The common ones to get criticised are Cabinet Office and DfE. The non-IT bit of Cabinet Office has a wage bill of about £8m, and that includes HR. The DfE agencies combined have a wage bill of about £6m. Bin them all off and you’ve saved probably £10m/year. Great, but the wage bill just at Nobles Hospital alone is £150m, and even at that level they have huge problems with staff retention.

There are tough conversations to be had about what we want. We want to compete with the Channel Islands on tax but they don’t have a free to access NHS; a trip to the GP in Jersey costs you up to £38 and a trip to A&E in Guernsey costs up to £570.

FWIW Manx Care is a funny one. The expenditure on their “CEO Office” division, at £30m, is higher than their expenditure on adult mental health at £27m. I don’t know what that CEO Office does and it’ll probably include some important but not obvious jobs, but that’s a lot of money.

Edited June 11 by Ringy Rose

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, Ringy Rose said:

Inflation isn’t coming down, it’s just going up less quickly. But the 2.3% this year is on top of the 12% for last year and the 10% for the year before that. People really don’t seem to understand the cumulative effect of inflation.

Eventually inflation will naturally hit a plateau.

I do think the 2.3% is also a temporary low level, big fuel cost rises are forecast for the autumn.

 

You could be correct about inflation and fuel costs. However, the projected rise in fuel costs is mainly in gas, which is just rising from 20 year lows. Futures have risen as countries are buying in advance to avoid huge rises. I hope Manx Gas is doing the same. High electricity prices are here to stay. Got to make those windmills appear to be value for money!