Ringo's island take over

[Non-Believer]

30 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said:

This government and therefore us are fucking skint every thing from now on will be digging down the back of the sofa as the public sector try and hang on to all them privileges they assume they have a god given right to, and that us the greater manx public will have to bleed to provide.

Much of this is very true. Govt policy is now less about providing services to the public and more about revenue raising to fund itself including its largesse to itself and its liabilities arising from legacy and ongoing incompetence and can-kicking. Protecting its own is its priority and everything will be sacrificed at that altar.

And make no mistake about it, this is set to continue for many, many years to come, with the scale of what needs to be funded (which is still growing too). Taxes and charges will continue to be going one way and it ain't down. Talk of sunlit economic uplands is there to keep the faithful plebs who believe Govt can do no wrong, quiet.

[Two-lane]

I system that I saw in use in a touristy town in another country (with some technical assumptions):

There is a barrier at the entrance. A camera does pattern recognition on the number plate, encodes a code onto a ticket which pops out of the machine.

The car driver wanders off into the town, has lunch, visits a museum, whatever, no time limit.

On return there are machines that you can pay with cash or card, or, theoretically pay via PayPal on an app.

At the exit a camera matches the number plate and checks if the ticket has been paid and raises the barrier - no need to insert the ticket. The system does not rely on a database of number plates and addresses - it can work with any number plate of any country. There is no need to register for an app. There is no need to estimate length of stay.

The user pays for the precise time used using standard payment methods.

I like that method.

 

[John Wright]

9 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

I system that I saw in use in a touristy town in another country (with some technical assumptions):

There is a barrier at the entrance. A camera does pattern recognition on the number plate, encodes a code onto a ticket which pops out of the machine.

The car driver wanders off into the town, has lunch, visits a museum, whatever, no time limit.

On return there are machines that you can pay with cash or card, or, theoretically pay via PayPal on an app.

At the exit a camera matches the number plate and checks if the ticket has been paid and raises the barrier - no need to insert the ticket. The system does not rely on a database of number plates and addresses - it can work with any number plate of any country. There is no need to register for an app. There is no need to estimate length of stay.

The user pays for the precise time used using standard payment methods.

I like that method.

 

The whole reason for RinGo and other equivalent payment methods is that there are no moving parts, nothing mechanical to service, maintain or go wrong. No redundancy, no replacement.

RinGo or a toll tag solution gets rid of the need for barriers, payment machines, even APNR. They avoid the need to go to a machine to pay.

What you will need is some method of checking payment. RinGo depends on either ANPR or a parking controller to check. As it’s paid in advance it’s logistically easier to check. A tag probably needs ANPR to log in and out, with software to link the tag reading with a number plate reading. Or a barrier that won’t allow entrance without the tag.

[Two-lane]

The point of view that RingGo is cheap and therefore good because there are no moving parts is not relevant until someone comes up with a cost per user over the lifetime of the equipment of the barrier systems compared to the cost of RingGo (which must have, amongst other things,  the cost of the electricity bill for multiple redundancy computer systems - and the replacement every few years).

The gossip about the airport car park barriers is that they failed because they were cheap, designated for undercover use only.

But they lasted 14 years before giving up (and that is longer than the life of the average computer). If so I would have used the same systems again and replaced them after 12 years.

Cheap is not the only parameter. What is good for the customer should be part of the analysis- but recognising that paying £100 per hour for parking would put a few people off.

[Not MHKs - because they get free parking]

 

 

[Roger Ram]

3 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

which must have, amongst other things,  the cost of the electricity bill for multiple redundancy computer systems - and the replacement every few years).

What had that got to do with us?  That is Ringos problem and factored into the fees we pay, which will be less than running our own operation.

[Dirty Buggane]

37 minutes ago, Two-lane said:

I system that I saw in use in a touristy town in another country (with some technical assumptions):

There is a barrier at the entrance. A camera does pattern recognition on the number plate, encodes a code onto a ticket which pops out of the machine.

The car driver wanders off into the town, has lunch, visits a museum, whatever, no time limit.

On return there are machines that you can pay with cash or card, or, theoretically pay via PayPal on an app.

At the exit a camera matches the number plate and checks if the ticket has been paid and raises the barrier - no need to insert the ticket. The system does not rely on a database of number plates and addresses - it can work with any number plate of any country. There is no need to register for an app. There is no need to estimate length of stay.

The user pays for the precise time used using standard payment methods.

I like that method.

 

Which is basically what is in use at Shaws brow/Bottle neck the only difference being no online payment but cash n card at ticket machines, just type in reg see what you owe pay barrier let's you leave. Why did the DOI not ask Corpy ? 

[Roger Ram]

13 minutes ago, Dirty Buggane said:

Which is basically what is in use at Shaws brow/Bottle neck the only difference being no online payment but cash n card at ticket machines, just type in reg see what you owe pay barrier let's you leave. Why did the DOI not ask Corpy ? 

I think they emailed them for advice, but the guy from corpy is on a business trip so won’t see the email until he gets back.

[John Wright]

RinGo the payment goes to the car park operator. They then get invoiced by RinGo. It’s hard to find out what they charge. Leicester says it’s a flat 15p per transaction. Others hide behind commercial confidentiality. There are rumours of a flat fee and a % collected as an alternative. 

But RinGo is in place at more than 17,000 parking locations in the UK. The cost will be much less than old fashioned electromechanical machines, however operated, cash or card. 

One thing that does need watching is that some car park owners are introducing dual pricing. An extra 20p for using RinGo and if you book a text reminder to warn you to return to your car or extend your parking payment then RinGo will charge you 10p.

The airport RinGo seems to be an outlier in terms of the way it operates. Most places max time is 24 hours or 7 days. 

 

[Cambon]

1 hour ago, John Wright said:

The whole reason for RinGo and other equivalent payment methods is that there are no moving parts, nothing mechanical to service, maintain or go wrong. No redundancy, no replacement.

RinGo or a toll tag solution gets rid of the need for barriers, payment machines, even APNR. They avoid the need to go to a machine to pay.

What you will need is some method of checking payment. RinGo depends on either ANPR or a parking controller to check. As it’s paid in advance it’s logistically easier to check. A tag probably needs ANPR to log in and out, with software to link the tag reading with a number plate reading. Or a barrier that won’t allow entrance without the tag.

But it is based on registration number. You can go to a motor factor and get a set of plates made to any number you want. In UK not as easy. 
I wont use RinGo. Quite simply because I don’t put ridiculous crap apps on my phone. They waste space. The whole thing is a stupid concept. 
We should adopt the Jersey approach of payment cards, that also make it easy for visitors. 

[La Colombe]

 

[Moghrey Mie]

https://www.gov.je/Travel/Motoring/Parking/Pages/CarParks.aspx

Jersey seems to be far ahead of the Isle of Man in organising parking all over the island.

[x-in-man]

7 hours ago, Roger Ram said:

How doesn’t Ringo work?  I have used it hundreds of times and never an issue?

Have you tried getting refunds for cancelled flights?  Tried contacting their customer disservice? Been billed for texts never received? Paid for parking extensions that have never been credited?  Taped in a code that has never been recognised?  Paid twice/3 times for the same car park?   Lucky you -  Ringo shill. 

[Roger Ram]

4 hours ago, x-in-man said:

Have you tried getting refunds for cancelled flights?  Tried contacting their customer disservice? Been billed for texts never received? Paid for parking extensions that have never been credited?  Taped in a code that has never been recognised?  Paid twice/3 times for the same car park?   Lucky you -  Ringo shill. 

User errors.

Never had a problem with any of that.

[cissolt]

10 hours ago, John Wright said:

RinGo the payment goes to the car park operator. They then get invoiced by RinGo. It’s hard to find out what they charge. Leicester says it’s a flat 15p per transaction. Others hide behind commercial confidentiality. There are rumours of a flat fee and a % collected as an alternative. 

But RinGo is in place at more than 17,000 parking locations in the UK. The cost will be much less than old fashioned electromechanical machines, however operated, cash or card. 

One thing that does need watching is that some car park owners are introducing dual pricing. An extra 20p for using RinGo and if you book a text reminder to warn you to return to your car or extend your parking payment then RinGo will charge you 10p.

The airport RinGo seems to be an outlier in terms of the way it operates. Most places max time is 24 hours or 7 days. 

 

I remember seeing an foi response for a UK council and the fee was quoted as 2% with a 50k annual support and maintenance fee.  

Tim's evasiveness regarding the costs suggest we might not be getting such a good deal.

Is it cheaper to have a man in a box collecting fees on exit? A friend of mine worked the gate at Liptons for years, sometimes a human is cheaper than the automated alternative.

https://www.manxradio.com/news/isle-of-man-news/decision-not-to-reveal-parking-charge-details-frustrating/

[asitis]

10 hours ago, Two-lane said:

But they lasted 14 years before giving up (and that is longer than the life of the average computer). If so I would have used the same systems again and replaced them after 12 years.

The island is spectacularly bad at routine maintenance ! perhaps the barrier system would indeed have lasted longer with basic maintenance.