Mistercee Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 51 minutes ago, Gladys said: You have to wonder if part of the problem in health services is to do with it being led by non-medics? Perhaps the lack of first hand experience of medical practice impacts on the ability to understand an issue raised, possibly creates a bit of professional jealousy? I think it is highly likely that this may be the root cause of many of the problems. Certainly the Banking Profession and Banks were ruined by the influx of non-professional Bankers - mainly Chartered Accountants who could manipulate the figures to make themselves look good, but also graduates with degrees in numpty subjects who thought they were gods gift to their choice of employer once they realised they could not get a job related to their degree subject. Were not some of those involved in the Ranson case graduates in matters not related to health / care/ management? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 (edited) On 7/10/2024 at 10:46 AM, Will Halsall said: ... With regards to taking a position on a wee island in the middle of the Irish Sea as opposed to London, I would argue that for many London and the other big cities are potentially more favourable, even with congestion charges etc. I may be wrong, but wouldn't consultants for example, prefer to be busier honing their butchery skills with higher numbers of patients in a major city, than stabilising a biker on the rock and putting him on a chopper to Aintree?... Yes. One hundred times over, yes. Some years ago I attended a NHS planning course where one of the other participants was a medical doctor who had decided to switch over to the "dark side" - NHS management. They were German by nationality and had happened to spend time on the IoM during their medical training. They liked it because it was quiet and manageable. Nothing could really go wrong. I concluded that they liked it because it didn't call greatly on any medical skills and that they didn't really want to be a doctor. Hence the cop out to become a manager... [Edit: And if you want to be a good surgeon or physician you want to be challenged. You don't want an easy life in a backwater where the challenges are necessarily limited by the size of the catchment..] Edited July 11 by Ghost Ship 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 14 hours ago, Ringy Rose said: Medics are just as capable of bullying people as non-medics are. Many of the whistleblower cases mentioned in the article @Will Halsall linked to involved medical directors and not non-medical management. If anything, I think the problem is often that being a good medic doesn’t mean you’re a good manager. Different skills are required. That and medics who get to the top are often not particularly well-disposed to people telling them they’ve got it wrong... Surely this is true of all professions, not just medics? Just because you are a good (or even competent) professional, it doesn't necessarily mean that you are good manager of fellow professionals. This is one of the fallacies of having doctors (or even matrons) running hospitals... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Ship Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 14 hours ago, Ringy Rose said: ... For specialist positions yes, absolutely. But for lower positions, not so much. Aren't all consultants specialists and not "lower positions"...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hampsterkahn Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 (edited) Doctors, dentists and nurses have to be registered with a professional body - GMC ; GDC; GNC. This is a very important, essential safeguard.A powerful tool to ensure good practice. However, managers/ administrators can malignly use it’s threat as a powerful blunt instrument. Even hinting that ‘ being reported’ might be the consequence of someone not ‘Toeing the line ‘ is sufficient intimidation, because it is very clear that an investigation, and suspension even if temporary renders them unemployable.Effectively, not only their present job is at risk, so is their whole career. It is a rather different situation for ,let’s loosely call them, senior admin..staff. They are not answerable to any such comparable body. The consequences, for them , no matter how much ‘bull in a china shop’ mayhem their actions have caused are rather different. After a few euphemistic changes to their LinkedIn profile, they are free to move on to take up another, perhaps even more senior position in another Trust. - and If they feel it too inconvenient, they can simply refuse to attend any subsequent enquiry. Edited July 12 by hampsterkahn 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gladys Posted July 12 Author Share Posted July 12 40 minutes ago, hampsterkahn said: Doctors and nurses have to be registered with a professional body GMC ; GDC. This is a very important, essential safeguard.A powerful tool to ensure good practice. However, managers/ administrators can malignly use it’s threat a sa powerful blunt instrument. Even hinting that ‘ being reported’ might be the consequence of someone not ‘Toeing the line ‘ is sufficient intimidation, because it is very clear that an investigation, and suspension even if temporary renders them unemployable.Effectively, not only their present job is at risk, so is their whole career. It is a rather different situation for ,let’s loosely call senior admin..staff. They are not answerable to any such comparable body. The consequences, for them , no matter how ‘bull in china shop’ mayhem their actions caused are rather different. After a few euphemistic changes to their LinkedIn profile, they are free to move on to take up another, perhaps even more senior position in another Trust. - and If they feel it too inconvenient, they can simply refuse to attend any subsequent enquiry. Very good points, and I think made elsewhere too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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