IOM Constabulary recruitment

[cissolt]

31 minutes ago, Derek Flint said:

Culture change. And for the better by all accounts. Sending the wrong asset has more potential to go wrong than sending the right one

You have a point

And they get that in droves. Better than anywhere else. But as the tag line in the movie SWAT went; 'because even cops call nine one one"

Decision making right. Information and intelligence flawed. 

I don't buy that the culture change is a good thing. Recently we saw a group of armed thugs kick an unarmed drunk man who was on the floor and then taze him while he was restrained.  Bullies in uniform becoming increasingly common.

[Gizo]

11 minutes ago, cissolt said:

Bullies in uniform becoming increasingly common.

And then give them guns. 

[Anyone]

8 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

 

 

No they don't.

It's a command decision taken by a nationally qualified senior officer, who then has to have that ratified by an even more qualified more senior officer.

If you can be bothered, you can read the following link which explains around 80% of what the deployment of armed officers entails.

https://www.college.police.uk/app/armed-policing 

 

No they don’t ? Your words.

so the police are not there to serve the public. Fine , but then who do they serve? 

[WTF]

9 hours ago, Anyone said:

No they don’t ? Your words.

so the police are not there to serve the public. Fine , but then who do they serve? 

the state as always.

[Derek Flint]

12 hours ago, cissolt said:

I don't buy that the culture change is a good thing. Recently we saw a group of armed thugs kick an unarmed drunk man who was on the floor and then taze him while he was restrained.  Bullies in uniform becoming increasingly common.

Let's wait for the report.

There was prior context, and by the sound of it at least one officer came very close to losing control of their firearm.

10 hours ago, Anyone said:

No they don’t ? Your words.

so the police are not there to serve the public. Fine , but then who do they serve? 

Of course they do, but they also have a positive obligation to protect life and sometimes that requires the deployment of assess who are trained  to apply potentially lethal force. Furthermore, the Health and Safety at Work Act requires the chief constable to properly mitigate risk.

And therefore the public delegates those responsibilities to its constables. There can't be a village debate each time the ARV might need to roll out of the gates of HQ. 

I'll be interested to see the next annual report and see whether there has been an increase in deployments. When I did the research for the last armed policing strategic threat and risk assessment I wrote for the force in 2016/17, there was a picture of under-deployment where the criteria threshold was clearly met. There was a lack of knowledge, understanding and confidence, and that has steadily been improved through better command and operational training. 

Today, you'll see overtly armed officers around at TT, Tynwald Day and other mass participation events. And remember, terrorists, radicals and the severely mentally unwell only have to be 'lucky' once and the reputation of the island is challenged on the world news for all the wrong reasons. The police, on your behalf, have to be lucky all the time.

The world has changed, and unfortunately the island doesn't exist in an airtight bubble.

Edited August 16 by Derek Flint

[genericUserName]

12 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

sometimes that requires the deployment of assess

Is this a typo?

12 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

... only have to be 'lucky' once

It's interesting how the typically terse language of that post Brighton missive from the old Republican leadership has entered the vernacular - 40 years on. Though it makes no sense in this context since most of normal life is, equally, a mass participation event.

They have already won if every village fête demands high security.

Therefore I am declaring CSE level gobbledegook.

Edited August 16 by genericUserName

[Derek Flint]

1 hour ago, genericUserName said:

Is this a typo?

It's interesting how the typically terse language of that post Brighton missive from the old Republican leadership has entered the vernacular - 40 years on. Though it makes no sense in this context since most of normal life is, equally, a mass participation event.

They have already won if every village fête demands high security.

Therefore I am declaring CSE level gobbledegook.

It's complex. Really complex and a long way from CSE (showing your age).

If you are struggling with 'mass participation' see 'grand national', 'silverstone' and probably most significantly, 'Ariana Grande'

Get back to me when you've got a tacit understanding then we will look at some of the seminal inquiries

 

[Anyone]

13 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Let's wait for the report.

There was prior context, and by the sound of it at least one officer came very close to losing control of their firearm.

Of course they do, but they also have a positive obligation to protect life and sometimes that requires the deployment of assess who are trained  to apply potentially lethal force. Furthermore, the Health and Safety at Work Act requires the chief constable to properly mitigate risk.

And therefore the public delegates those responsibilities to its constables. There can't be a village debate each time the ARV might need to roll out of the gates of HQ. 

I'll be interested to see the next annual report and see whether there has been an increase in deployments. When I did the research for the last armed policing strategic threat and risk assessment I wrote for the force in 2016/17, there was a picture of under-deployment where the criteria threshold was clearly met. There was a lack of knowledge, understanding and confidence, and that has steadily been improved through better command and operational training. 

Today, you'll see overtly armed officers around at TT, Tynwald Day and other mass participation events. And remember, terrorists, radicals and the severely mentally unwell only have to be 'lucky' once and the reputation of the island is challenged on the world news for all the wrong reasons. The police, on your behalf, have to be lucky all the time.

The world has changed, and unfortunately the island doesn't exist in an airtight bubble.

So in a word that’s a no then. Like I say I’m fine with that as long as I know. The police do not necessarily serve the public in the way the public might think or expect them to. They have a different function and not one that the general public may understand. Because we’re thickos. 

[Derek Flint]

8 hours ago, Anyone said:

So in a word that’s a no then. Like I say I’m fine with that as long as I know. The police do not necessarily serve the public in the way the public might think or expect them to. They have a different function and not one that the general public may understand. Because we’re thickos. 

Far from it. In the UK there is a statutory requirement to consult with the public before the publication of a policing plan. But it doesn't always follow that all of the result of that consultation will make it intonthat plan. That's because often the return will focus on dogshit and speeding. It ignores the wider and more nuanced issues such as child exploitation, human trafficking, terrorism, organised crime.and extremism.

Therefore there is a balance. The public might not always get exactly the service they want, but it will be the one they need. How good the delivery of that service subsequently is, is a different conversation- see the latest inspection of the MPS.

[genericUserName]

23 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

If you are struggling with 'mass participation' see 'grand national', 'silverstone' and probably most significantly, 'Ariana Grande'

Borough Market and that London bus demonstrate that most of life is a 'mass participation' event.

The kind of thing you are talking about can only ever be intelligence-led. Random presence is costly and pointless.

23 hours ago, Derek Flint said:

Get back to me when you've got a tacit understanding then we will look at some of the seminal inquiries

A tacit understanding of what specifically? And what use does the word tacit have in this context?

Edited August 17 by genericUserName

[The Voice of Reason]

22 hours ago, Anyone said:

So in a word that’s a no then. Like I say I’m fine with that as long as I know. The police do not necessarily serve the public in the way the public might think or expect them to. They have a different function and not one that the general public may understand. Because we’re thickos. 

Did you do CSE’s?

[Derek Flint]

5 minutes ago, genericUserName said:

Borough Market and that London bus demonstrate that most of life is a 'mass participation' event.

The kind of thing you are talking about can only ever be intelligence-led. Random presence is costly and pointless.

A tacit understanding of what specifically? And was use does the word tacit have in this context?

No.

Borough Market and 7/7 should have been intelligence led, but they weren't. They ended up as spontaneous incidents. 

Deployments at Mass Participation events are as a result of the overall TAM threat and risk assessment under the "as an operational contingency in a specific operation (based on the threat assessment)" element of the criteria.

"tacit" in this context means a basic grasp. 

It took me years of operational training and qualification to develop the required expertise to plan and command armed operations. In my day job I remain a scholar of the lessons learned before and since my time to try and equip the next generation with a better understanding.

 

[StrangeBrew]

1 hour ago, Derek Flint said:

"tacit" in this context means a basic grasp.

Is that a special police meaning? Because I don’t think there is any context in which tacit would  mean that.

[Derek Flint]

10 hours ago, StrangeBrew said:

Is that a special police meaning? Because I don’t think there is any context in which tacit would  mean that.

OK, perhaps a bit over broad - 'basic' would have been better.

Thank you. Hopefully that makes more sense

[Gladys]

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tacit

Hope this helps.